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February 09, 2012, 05:57:46 AM
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Author Topic: What is a church?  (Read 579 times)
burlsgirl
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« on: September 10, 2007, 07:28:58 AM »

This question has been on my heart for a while now. What is the church? Who/what is it for? Does this make sense? I've been struggling lately with going to church. It seems so pointless. And I don't see the biblical model for what we do every Sunday. Then yesterday, our preacher was saying how 85% of all american "christians" believe that the church exists to meet their needs and the needs of the family and how this was selfish, and the church is supposed to be "missional". I can see what he's talking about, but I would just really like to know, biblically, what is/was the church supposed to be? Lately, it just seems like lots of "stuff" with a scripture thrown in here and there. Jesus seems to get lost in the "daily living" messages. Or maybe it's just me??? Dh says "It sure would be easy NOT to go...", but he's not quite there yet.

Thanks,
Emily
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khix
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2007, 05:04:45 AM »

This question has been on my heart for a while now. What is the church? Who/what is it for? Does this make sense? I've been struggling lately with going to church. It seems so pointless. And I don't see the biblical model for what we do every Sunday. .............. Lately, it just seems like lots of "stuff" with a scripture thrown in here and there. Jesus seems to get lost in the "daily living" messages. Or maybe it's just me??? Dh says "It sure would be easy NOT to go...", but he's not quite there yet.


We've been wondering about/struggling with this too.  It's nice to know that we are not the only ones.  I don't have any 'answers', but I figured that I'd post to let you know that you are not alone, and I'm hoping for some responses to these questions.
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screasy
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« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2007, 10:25:07 AM »

Burlsgirl,

I am sorry to be so long in responding to your question.  I know you want the men to answer, as do many (including me, I must say) but alas, time is sometimes short.

I did a word study on the word "church" and found 76 references.  The first interesting thing is that the word is only found in the New Testament.  My belief is that this is a NT concept, and one that is based on Jesus, so it could not have existed in the OT.

Quote from: Matthew 16
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Christ states in this first usage of the word that the "church" is something He will build.  He states that the understanding that who He (Christ) is, is the foundation of the church.  So, in order to be "a part of" the church, one must first believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

Quote from: Matthew 18
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

This second quote that contains the word "church" shows that the church must be something that can hear something told to it.  This must be an individual or collection of individuals, since a building cannot hear, nor can it believe in Christ.

Quote from: Acts 2
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

This third quote definitely shows that the church are individuals, and more specifically, "such as should be saved".  There are several important things to note here.  First, it is the LORD who does the adding.  Walking down an aisle, shaking someone's hand, having a letter written for you, being baptised, taking a covenant...these things are what MAN recognizes in our time, but that is not what the Bible said is to be done.  The LORD adds.  Now, how we as a matter of practice recognize that one has been added is the topic of another conversation, but I mainly want to point out that membership in the Body of Christ is not of man, but of God.

Second, who is being added?  "such as should be saved".  This is not easily understood in today's language, but I would argue that these are those who have understood the gospel and have accepted it and believed it.  Those who "are" saved.  Now there are MANY who are members of any church who are not saved.  They are members in man's eyes, but not in God's, I believe, because of this saying.  For example, I believe that more members of this community (7xsunday) are members of "the church" by percentage, than many in churches in your very town.  The folks here are SEARCHING for God, they are trying to develop a deeper understanding and knowledge of God and things related to Him.  Now, this of itself does not MAKE one a member of the church, but rather, is an indicator of one who is saved and is trying to find out all one can about the One he loves.  This is my opinion.

Now, this is all well and good, and I hope answers your question of what the church IS and who it is FOR.  Now the tough question is where does your local church fit in with this description, if it does at all.

I must say that at times, I have felt like you, utterly alone.  Not seeing much if any fruit in my fellow "members".  Longing for relationships with other like-minded folks who GET IT.  Well, those other members may not be "members" at all, but what is one to do?  One could leave, and meet at home with one's family, leave and look for another body, or stay and be salt and light.

I am sorry to be anticlimactic, but that is a choice you and your family will have to make for yourselves.  I would be interested to see how you all decide, though.  I would like to be encouraged by your stories.  I hope this has helped, and not caused you more confusion.  I hope other men will add to this thread.
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ScottsHelper
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« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2007, 07:45:18 PM »

I"ve been wanting to reply for awhile to your post, but am just now able to sit down and type it out!  This is more written to you in the spirit of Titus 2,  rather than a doctrinal discussion on the topic of Church, which I'll gladly leave to the men.  I hope it is ok to post here given this topic is under the heading of Bible Questions ...I'm not sure how else or where else to reply.

I just want to encourage you, in the midst of your searching for truth on the issue of Church, to keep on following your husband's spiritual leadership of your family in this area!   It's good to hunger for the Truth, and to seek it!  And, when you find it, and you strip away all of the traditions of men that have been attached to it over the years, it is very freeing (but a little scary too--it is a real leap of faith to strip away all preconceived ideas of something and find that truth is entirely different what you thought and were taught all of your life, and then be willing to act on what you find, even when it means going against the grain of the masses, and make all future decisions based on your new understanding!   To me, it is exhilerating! ) About six years ago our family began asking the same questions as you.  Somewhere or somehow, I was introduced to the idea that we should examine the Biblical teachings of Church-who/what it is and how to apply it.   When I approached my husband about this, it was something that he had been seriously ruminating over in his own study, but had not yet expressed to me.  We have been on quite a journey since!  Thankfully, it has been a journey we have taken together.  There were moments several years ago when I thought we should move ahead more quickly with breaking away from the "institutional" church, but the Lord is good and, through my husband's leadership of our family,  the timing was just right.  I can look back now and see, during a few of those times, I did grow discontent with where we were.  I pray that you will keep on trusting your husband's judgement and stay patient!  If you are following your husband's lead, then you are where you need to be right now!   

Heather   
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