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[kenshelpmeet]

Good day to you all.  I began asking about this problem on welltellme, but with the situation as it is, I figured I'd better move it here.
Here's the deal.  My husband is in the Army, deploying in Nov. to Iraq.  The anthrax vaccine has once again been made mandatory, but it has not been proven effective, or needed, and through my research I have found that it is a dangerous vaccine, it is experimental, causing autoimmune diseases to develop, can cause fetal birth defects, and quite a few soldiers have now died because of it.

My question is this:  Does my husband obey the order and receive the vaccinations (there are 4 to 6 of them total), risking his health and the health of our future children, but be able to keep his good name (Heb. 13:17, 1 Pet. 2:13, Rom. 13:1-3, Prov. 22:1, Eccl. 7:1)?     Or do we fight this order to protect the family from potentially disastrous health problems and to help protect our freedoms that we seem to be losing steadily?    He could be punished severely - loss of rank and pay, put in jail, thrown out of the military, all for refusing this vaccine.

We want to be in the center of His will, whatever He would have us do.  We have been seeking Him fervently, but are still unclear as to what we should do.   We have sought counsel from our fathers, and they have told us a couple of different things, which do not agree with each other.

Please help if you can.  My husband is supposed to take the first shot today. 
Thank you for your wisdom and insight in advance.   
Mommyoffive

[rainygladness]

I can empathize with your concerns over vaccines.  We do not use them in our family at all due to the harmful ingredients and side effects (one of which is autism and even death).
But in your situation, when you husband signed on with the armed forces, he basically was agreeing to do whatever they told him to do.  If it were us, we would seriously reconsider whether being in the military and keeping a good standing in it, was worth the future health of the family.  If it isn't, then a negative mark, or even a dishonorable discharge may be worth taking, if it were us.  No job is worth risking your health for.
But ulitmately, this is your husband's decision to make, so rest in the peace of knowing it is not all up to you.  Your job is to remain in submission to him so your prayers wouldn't be hindered and then pray, pray,pray.  God may continue to be silent on the matter and require blind faith.  If your husband asks for your opinion, give it.
Otherwise, if he is willing to take the risks of the shots to remain in the military, then I would pray God would cover him in every way from the negative affects of the vaccine or give you the strength and courage to bear the consequences with grace and trust.

I will be praying for you today!

[kenshelpmeet]

Ladies, thanks so much for your input.  I totally agree with your comment, rainygladness, that we agreed to obey all orders when he joined.  However, we were assuming those orders would include risks such as enemy fire, dangerous circumstances/missions, etc.  We were not aware that the military is used as guinea pigs by our government to test experimental vaccines.  If we would have known the history behind this, I doubt we would have joined so readily.

And, littlemama24, believe me -- we are praying!    And we've been researching, trying to find out everything we can to protect him from detrimental side effects or to reverse them (hence the welltellme thread )  And we 've been praying that God would protect him no matter what happens, whether he gets the shots or not.

He called a bit ago, and the officer that he thought would be most difficult to talk to was actually very understanding, and has given him until Monday to make a final decision.  At that point in time, if he still refuses, they will have no choice but to send him to higher command so they can make a judgment for or against his request and decide on disciplinary measures.

Our problem is that we keep finding Scripture that could direct us either way.  There's verses on obeying authority, verses on taking care of your body (temple), etc.

We are not career military.  He's planning on getting out after this deployment anyway and we want to be self-employed, so a dishonorable discharge is not a big deal in that respect.  It is a big deal in respect to his keeping a good name.   He is a very good, honorable, God-fearing man and we appreciate all prayers concerning our protection during this trying time.

[ScottsHelper]

My dh, currently in Iraq,  just took his 2nd shot for anthrax.  We too have had concerns about this.  Dh had been able to avoid it for the last 2 years that he has been in the military, but they changed it from optional to mandatory recently, as you know.  My husband is not career military either.  We prayed long and hard about the decision for him to serve his country at this very trying time in our nation.  When he went in, we had no doubt that it was the Lord's will for him to do this, and we still have no doubt today. We have seen His power act on Scott's behalf in so many ways along this journey!  LittleMama referred to Paul and the serpents in the Bible, and we too have prayed for protection from this in the same way.   You didn't mention how it was that your husband entered the military, but we believe that for my husband,  he is in the Lord's perfect will being in the military right now,  and that the Lord will take care of ALL the details, every single one!  That doesn't necessarily mean that my husband will, without a doubt, be immune from complications from the shot, just as we aren't promised, in obeying the Lord, that my husband will come home alive (we pray fervently that he does!) But in obeying the Lord, in following Him, we have to trust Him for the outcome!  As far as the shot, we have prayed for the Lord's protection, and we have left it in the Lord's hands., and we have to rest in that.  That's all we (our family) can do!

Not sure that gives you any further info toward making your decision, but thought I'd share our experience.

Praying the Lord would guide you in this decision, and for peace in your hearts with what He leads your husband to do!

Heather

[kenshelpmeet]

Thank you, ladies, for your input!  I'm so thankful to be a part of this group.   We are still praying about what to do, but might be sneaking up on a decision.   I'm only 2 weeks from my due date, and I told my dh last night that when we finally make a decision, all of the stress that I've been feeling will release, I'll relax, and *boom* here comes our little one! 

You gals are a blessing! 

[Gabriel Anast]

First, let me say I really appreciate ScottsHelper's advise and comments. They are excellent. Ultimately the point of life (all life) is faith.

Second, here is an excellent site on the subject (mil anthrax vaccine):
http://www.mvrd.org/showpage.cfm?ID=26

Third, just know that the military probably pays a lot of money to the contractor that makes the vaccine, and that the decision to force all troops to take the vaccine is most likely a financial kick-back from the drug company to the military policy group that mandates the vaccine. I know this is a completely cynical perspective, but it is a very good possibility in any case.

However... the FDA still regulates the vaccine, and there is actually a lot of pressure on the FDA to do its job. I am willing to bet that most men do just fine with the vaccine.

Finally, Pray. Pray for wisdom for your husband. These days a dishonorable discharge is not what it used to be (its worse in the Southern states, however). In many places if he said that he was dishonorably discharged for refusing an order to take a vaccine, he would be applauded as a martyr and a hero... this is why it might be more dangerous than if he refused just any order. When he signed up, his relationship with the US government was contractually stipulated... and even though the US military is probably one of the most demanding contract holders... they are nevertheless a contract holder and can be negotiated with.

Maybe if he goes to his superior and says, "Look, I don't want to make trouble, and I don't care if this is ever public, I just have to avoid this vaccine. Is there some way we can work this out..." it might go better. In any case its a better place to start than refusing an order.

We love you, and your husband, and the service to our country that you and he provide. We are praying for you, and him.

--gabe

[kenshelpmeet]

Gabe, thank you for your comments and your prayers.  Much, much appreciated.   We read through it together. 

Ken just left for work.  He's going to go to the vaccine briefing this morning, as one of the officers suggested, and may go talk with a chaplain since they requested he do that as well.  Then by 9am (central time), he will be giving his answer.

When all was said and done yesterday, we went to bed still unclear on what to do.  We've poured over the Word, have sought counsel from several Godly men, and prayed and prayed that He would reveal to us what He wants us to do.  It's  become more of an issue of obedience to Him rather than fear of the vaccine at this point, because we have confidence that God will protect Him from illness.

The site you mentioned, we've looked at several different times.  And you're right about the company that makes the vaccine.  They are being paid over $4 for every one of the 2.4 million doses they are producing.  That is a HUGE contract.  And I've read in a few places that the FDA is letting things slide on this a bit because DoD and higher-ups need them to.  I've also read that they are being cut out of the loop entirely.   Don't know which is right, if either.

I don't know if he is going to refuse the shots or not.  He didn't know when he left.   We're praying that God will give him the words to speak when he goes in (talk about last minute, Scottshelper! LOL).  If he refuses, it could be a very lengthy process of punishment before the whole thing is settled, or he could be a civilian tomorrow.  Only God knows, and we know whatever happens, that we are in His hands, that we sought Him with everything we have, and that He will bring all things together for our good.

Thank you all so very much for your prayers on our behalf.   I will keep you updated as I hear from him later today.  Gina

[kenshelpmeet]

Thank you again, friends, for all your prayers.  I just heard from Dh and he said that God confirmed in his heart that he should submit to the order and accept the shots.   It's a bit of a story, so I'll try to write it out later, but just know that we are at peace with the decision and that we are trusting that God will work all of this out for our good, and that he will be protected from illness. 

[kenshelpmeet]

Well, here's the story if anyone is interested: 

Dh got to work and was asked right away what his decision was.  He told the
platoon sgt. that he wanted to speak with the commander first before he
submitted to the order.  He told me that he wanted to make sure that he got
a direct order, that he was basically being forced to get the shots so that
the blame would be on the authorities and not him if he ended up getting
sick.

So, the platoon sgt. took him to the commander and 1st sgt.  The commander
wouldn't even listen to him.  He ordered him to take the shot and walked
off.  Talk about lack of respect.    But the other two officers asked him to
explain his issue and he told them that he is a man under authority, God's
authority, and that it is his duty to be a good steward of his family and
his health.  He explained just a bit of what we've learned about the
vaccine, but things were so busy that he didn't get to talk for long.  The
officers were both respectful, listened to him and then both said that
unfortunately, he still has to take the shots.  He had already felt at this
point that that was what the Lord wanted him to do, so he told them that he
would comply.

AFTER all of this took place, he was working alongside a new warrant officer
who had just arrived at Hood last Thursday.  He had not met him before
yesterday morning.  This fellow told him that he had already heard about him
thinking about refusing the order and that it was a BIG DEAL.  The
commanders had already decided on his punishment -- you might not believe
this, we couldn't -- they were going to max him out on every level.
Basically, they were going to give him 30 days in the brig, drop him to E1
which would have dropped our pay by at least $1000/mo., send him to Iraq
(without the vaccine, I'm assuming), AND then upon his return home, give him
a dishonorable discharge.  All of this because he wants to protect his
health and his family's health from a dangerous, possibly life-threatening, untested vaccine?!
And to ensure that his ability to provide for his family is not put in
jeopardy?!  And being an intelligence analyst, neither he nor his buddies
have seen evidence that anthrax is even a possible threat
over there yet.

Now I don't know how much of this was mandated by DoD, but we think it was
up to the commander to decide on the severity of punishment.  But they knew
that our baby is due any day, that he has five other children and that we
are a single-income family.  None of that mattered.  What mattered was
making an example of him.

We're just thankful that we did not know all of this before we made the
decision because we KNOW that we did what the Lord wanted and did not act
based on fear of man.  Thank you Jesus!  We're hopeful that he might be able
to get out of the last one or two shots since they are not supposed to
happen until he's almost out of the Army.  We'll just have to wait and see
what happens. 

[Wing]

Thanks for the update.  You guys are so awesome!   Your story is great, and I'm sure God will use it to his glory.  I have been praying for all the officers involved in this situation that they might be influenced or saved from your husband's example of Godly obedience. 

[healthyinOhio]

Well, here's the story if anyone is interested: 

Wow!  What a story.  In fact, that morning, I was reading my Bible and came upon a certain scripture that lead me to pray for your husband.

2 Peter 2:
[13] Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
[14] Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
[15] For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

Which absolutely amazed me, because I had just got done sharing with you what we would have done in that situation, but after reading that scripture I was so convicted.  I am glad that everything worked out as it did.  Will pray that the chemicals will be gone from your husband's body! 

[kenshelpmeet]

Wow, thanks for that Scripture, HIO!  That is one that we did not see before we made the decision.

One thing I forgot to mention, but was a wonderful confirmation that we did what the Lord wanted:  I was praying for my dh that morning during the time he would be speaking to them.  (I also stuck slips of paper with appropriate verses in each of the many pockets in his uniform before he left so he was "covered" with the Word  .  I know, I'm weird ).  Anyway, while I was praying I FINALLY had a peace about his getting the shots.  He wasn't able to call me until 11:30, so I was very anxious to see if we had been "on the same page" with the decision.  We were both so thankful that we had been thinking the same way, because the entire previous day we had been leaning toward refusing the order!  God is good!

All day Monday, I was having trouble with anger flaring up about this whole situation, but as we move ahead, both of us are feeling better about the whole thing and are letting it go.   Wing, thank you for praying for the officers.  None are believers, that we know of.   It looks like he will have 15 months in Iraq to share the love of Christ with these guys. 

THANK YOU ALL for your many prayers for us!   We have been most abundantly blessed by you, our sweet friends!  My hubby read all of the comments again last night and said that y'all are awesome!  Gina

[kenshelpmeet]

Thank you for all 0f your prayers!  My hubby received the first vaccination on Tuesday, and hasn't even had the typical flu-like symptoms from it, just a bit of soreness at the site.

Also, we had our little baby girl later that same day!  It was quite the full day for us.   God is good!

Just want you all to know how much you are appreciated and loved   Gina

[ScottsHelper]

Congratulations, Gina!   And, glad things are going well for your husband!  The Lord is so good!!!

Heather

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