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[jenway]

Thank you for your encouragement.  I truly believe staying it the right thing.

Lately, I have been put to the test nearly every day. It is wearing me down.  And I know it is partly that I am not taking care of myself like I should that makes it difficult to know what  I should be doing.

I love my dh dearly, and I want the best for him. If that is for me to stay and continue on I will.

[ForeverGirl]

What I want to know  from other wives (wives that are interested in doing the will of God) is how do you know when he  has gone too far and you and the kids should leave or get him to do so for safety reasons? Of course I know that in extreme cases - physical or sexual abuse- that you must leave .

But what about when it is not "that bad" yet?  What about violent yelling- threats- to you or the children?   What if he is getting money by selling dealing drugs?  What if says there are no drugs in the house but you find some?  What if he lets a young child drink beer? What if he takes the children with him while he is drinking/high,etc. and drives?  What if you are invited to some special occasion, but you know that there will be lots of drinking there? Or a family event- like a holiday dinner?

And have any of you gotten in the car with your dh (with the kids too)

Hi Jessicah,  [Warning: the following post butchers a couple sacred cows and may be offensive to the religious reader.]

I don't have anyone close to me dealing with addictions, so my comments here are from observation, some counseling experience, and knowledge of the Word.

First of all, we will keep you in our prayers. God does deliver the faithful, and is a strong tower for you to hide in when the storms get tough.

Regarding your questions, these things are practical guidelines I would follow.

1) Research and get familiar with the specific side effects and influence of each substance that your DH uses. Make a point of knowing what he is feeling and what his weaknesses are.

For instance, some drugs will actually heighten awareness and make the abuser a better driver (although possibly more aggressive), rather than a worse one.

 Alcohol is not one of these. If he has been drinking, try to find out by testing his reflexes... "here, catch the keys" in order to find out how altered his judgement may be. If he simply had a drink, then no big deal. If he is altered in ability to react to a degree that will make him a dangerous driver, then I'd say, do not get in the car with him, and do not let your children go with him.  Instead, offer to drive. Beg, if need be.

If he refuses, and leaves to drive while drunk, I would just refuse and keep the kids with me... Pray... seek God's guidance here.

(gabe) There is a site that has a lot of good info called, Erowid. Google it. I am not linking it, as it also has a lot of complicit and illicit purveyance and approval of "drunkenness." Don't go there if drugs are your weakness... because you will be tempted. The site will, however, allow you to completely understand the nature and effects of any particular drug.

2) Selling drugs... (gabe + Beka (= love  ))
This is a tough subject. I know lots of drug dealers, and they all wear white coats and dole out their goodies from behind a counter. This doesn't make it right, just ... weird.
I don't know what to say here... if he's dealing to kids, then I think I'd leave as soon as possible. If he's selling to his own addicted adult friends, then I'd say to ignore the issue. The first, as I see it, is a man subverting and harming another man's household/children, a crime guilty of death by OT law.  The second situation is one man interacting with another grown man who, according to the laws of Moses, is accountable for his own actions.
Of course, there are American civil and criminal issues as well... but I suppose you can figure that out on your own.

3) About drunkenness (gabe)
Although I do not think the Bible says anything against, "using drugs" it does strongly condemn drunkenness. Many drugs are highly refined extracts of (good) plants that are intended to cause a "drunken" state almost immediately. I guess I mean, "out of control" when I say drunken... a state where a person cannot tell if they are being hurt or not, where they cannot act apart from their flesh, etc. This, as I see it, is evil, and threatening to you and the kids. Smoking a cigarette is not this case (although almost all modern tobacco is laced with ammonia to make it highly addictive) as I see it, and neither is smoking a typical amount of marijuana... usually this is more like drinking about three or four beers.

4) About American drug policy (gabe)
All "drugs" in their right usage are, IMO, good. However, this is not according to US statute, and as a result, if a man was in our body here, I would tell him plainly to comply with US policy. The drug / pharma-chem industry is so huge here, exerts so much control and is so specifically violent to its "enemies" (read: self perscribers), that it is just not warranted to touch that which is illegal. The use of these things places your family in un-warranted jeopardy. If you desire more freedom, move to Thailand or Columbia or whatever.

5) A woman, her children and a drunken husband (gabe)
My understanding is that if a husband capitulates (like, when he is drunk / high), according to the explanation of a woman's place in the body of Christ according to Paul (I can see this by implication in Moses as regards a man's maidservant who he gives to a man-servant... who then leaves after 6 years... the maidservant is now directly under the "owner" and her children are his), the woman is basically under the direct jurisdiction of Christ, and He is her head and the "owner" of her children. In other words, when the husband goes away, she now must follow Christ (in the context of wise counsel from the body of Christ... but I don't know any of you that really have this... so...), and allow him to be her head and she must see the children as His. How this will express itself in any particular situation, I am not sure... however, this is the basic idea. There are some amazingly good personal examples here on the forum...

6) Regarding kids drinking beer... (Beka)
LOL, this is a world-wide perspective versus the American perspective:
When I lived overseas I had many temperate Christian friends that grew up drinking beer. Literally. One fellow I met had a mixture of beer and milk in his bottle at night when he was a baby. Now, these are folks that did not associate beer with drunkenness (after all, that's what cheap wine or Vodka is for... right?). It was just a beverage to them. Sure, you could get drunk on it... but who wants to be drunk all the time?  European college kids don't have nearly the problem with alcohol poisoning that American college kids do.

I think personally, if my DH was drunk and offering the kids a drink, that I would remove them from the situation, because it wouldn't be simply a beverage at that point... it would be an offer of intemperance. At that point, I would try to have them gone somewhere else anyway...

But, if he is not drunk, and is just having a beer after work, in his own home... then I wouldn't complain. In fact, for the sake of the child, and his understanding of the issue (temperance) at hand, (and if you can do this without offending your own conscience or putting yourself in place of temptation that you are not mature enough to handle) I'd take the bottle and take a drink as well.

This is to make a point that to drink alcohol with self-control is not wrong. Likewise, make a point of being with your husband and enjoying his company while he smokes and drinks... until he is drunk. Then get up and leave without rebuke or shaming him.

When he laments his addiction, then do as Rachel said, and respond with love and compassion that you believe he can be set free and that you are willing to help in any way that he needs.

Let me try again to explain where I'm coming from:

Fake Boundaries. There are accurate boundaries and fake boundaries.

Many times people will erect fake boundaries because they are afraid of the very real danger that exists beyond the real boundaries; they want to put distance between themselves (or their children) and that danger. The problem with creating fake boundaries for children is that when they discover your boundaries were fake, they will say "Dad was a drunk, and Mom was a religious liar... I'd rather be a drunk." Make sure that you accurately represent the truth regarding alcohol. Remember it is not the alcohol that is dangerous - it is the intemperance, the personal choice to lay aside self control. Demonstrate this truth to your children by being a real-life example of self-control and compassion  - do not be an example of fear and judgmental wrath.

Bottom line here is that I have known men that drank more because it was "wrong" to drink at all... and then when they found out that wine "cheereth the heart of God and man" they weren't tempted to drink so much anymore. When the fake boundaries were removed, much of the guilt was gone as well, leaving the addict with more room to recover.  

In my observation, most alcoholics have really low self esteem, and are prone to self incrimination and guilt. They will marry a woman who becomes their conscience, and is afraid... afraid of drunkenness, etc... and then the men drink more, rather than less, because they feel guilty.

I'm not saying you are this person. I have seen men destroy themselves without any help at all... However, I do recommend that you make a very definite point of loving your husband and laying aside all incrimination, rebuke, scorn, fear... throw it all away as though it were the cause.

Then base your actions on logic. Am I in danger? Are the kids in danger? What should I do next?

I know this post is a bit shocking. But it's honest, and I've seen it work.

Cry out to God for wisdom, love, and forgiveness.

Praying with you,

Rebekah

[jenway]

Thank you so much, Beka and Gabe, for your prayers and taking time to reply. I think your advice is very practical and gives me a way to see the reality of the situation on a day to day basis even if my emotions or feelings are running amok.


I think  that your advice is so helpful too, b/c neither of you are intimately/emotionally involved with addicts like us, thus you have an outside view that we dont have since we are emotionally involved  with our husbands. 


Lets me give another case scenario: Husband comes home after work and obviously had a few drinks. He is very obnoxious, picking on the kids- to the point that the one who is getting picked on gets upset and starts to cry. He gets mad and fusses uncontrolably, becoming somewhat violent (slams  doors ,yells at the kid  to go to room, throws something or kicks a whole in the door (you pick- they have all been done )

What is the mothers role in this situation? Approach husband in another room calmly? Approach child away from father? Is there anything as a mother I could do to prevent it ?

     They know that their daddy has a drinking problem b/c after some really bad episodes he sat them down,apologized and told them he had a problem drinking,  But that was  a long time ago (a year or so) and I dont think the younger children realize that it is the liquor that makes him angry. The older ones do and I think that they have been avoiding him more lately.


Another scenario: Dh leave the house and takes a few younger kids with him (he will drink in front of the younger ones now, but not the older ones)  to go uptown for this and that.  He leaves the house  sober.       But while uptown, he buys a six pack- and drinks enough so that  I can obviously tell by just talking to him (even over the phone ) that he has been drinking.  The kids had left with him while he was  sober..... I dont know.  Do I approach him before  he leaves in the first place, asking him to be honest with me and if he if he is  going to drink to please leave the kids with me? I may get an earful but I  think that is what I should be doing. I would like to know what others think. 


Something that I noticed about addicts is that if they know where you are vulnerable (where you know you are weak- and make mistakes sometimes- ex. your role as wife/mother) they will subconsciously use those things to make you feel guilty anytime you bring up their drinking- even if you bring it up in  a nonconfrontational way.   This is their way of avoiding their own guilt for their behaviour.

I agree that most addicts/alcoholics have low self esteem-in fact, I am sure that all of them do.

I think my dh is one of those who married a woman who was his "conscious" and that he is filled with guilt for his addictions and what he has done b/c of them.
He has told me many times that I am a wonderful person/wife  and that no other would do and he doesnt even "deserve" me,  yet  he needs something more but he never can describe it.  I always tell him it is Jesus, his Saviour, that he needs, but maybe I am prideful  and I am partly at fault.

          He has always said he feels so rotten knowing that hurt me so much and that I have fears,etc. I am not the same woman I was years ago. I have been hurt so much that I no longer am close to him. I really am "detatched" nearly everyday from him. Partly because he is drinking/near drunk  and partly b/c I cant forget the hurt. (or maybe cant forgive- I need to look at this honestly)   I think it is the sense of fear and hurt he gets from me that increases  his guilt......wisdom, love, and forgiveness desperately needed on my end.


Another thought, my dh in particular loves children and loves his kids. He HATES being alone and always wants me and/or the kids RIGHT there..... Perhaps this makes my issues a little different than others wives with alcoholic husbands. I was just wondering.

[Gabriel Anast]

Jessicah , I have to say that the situations you describe are cases that are "clarification cases" as to the place of a woman in a marriage as the Bible describes it.

If you would give me some time I would like to cover this is the Bible Discussion board.

At root it brings up these questions:

1) When does a man capitulate / put his woman away, and what is the next step for a woman?
2) Do the kids belong to the mother or the father? (this has some interesting and unexpected answers)

In other words, as I see it your question is no longer about drunkenness.

Would you mind posting this last post as a new thread in the Bible Discussion area?

--gabe

PS: would someone also make a post in the Bible Discussion form asking, "What does 'Vengeance is mine saith the Lord' mean"?

[provided4]

I am thinking that when he is caught up in his ( sin, sinful lifestyle) he has, in a spiritual sense, " put us away" and , being saved at one point, he feels guilty about that. The guilt makes him lash out (at  me) and try to make it MY fault to make himself feel better. As I am working to get closer to the Lord, follow Him,  and follow dh , " cleave to him", that makes him have to push me harder. Does that make sense? Because it makes sense to me. I think I can be a little more patient with him if I see him as a trapped animal who feels guilty and , while he has the key to the trap door, is too busy being mad to let himself out. My feeding him food through the bars is only infuriating him. Maybe I just stand far enough away and offer words of encouragement? Say nothing? Walk away and tell him where I'll be? Spiritually ( and in all senses) remaining married so he can come back?

[uptrapperdansgirl]

 

Come along with me back to a place of darkness so that when I tell you of the marvelous light we can rejoice together!

I also started everything young. I was 9 yrs old the first time I smoked pot, by age 15 I started using LSD on the weekends, pot daily, alcohol often. At first it was fun and I didn't care, but something else happened when I was 15, my mom gave her life over to the Lord! Her kids were all over the place living in sin, and she had given us up to my dad after they divorced when I was 10.

I moved in with my now husband when I was 16. Life was one big party. We had our 1st  baby when I was 19 and after our 2nd we started to use heavier drugs. Crack/cocaine, LSD, exctasy, pills of all sorts. Pot was still an everyday thing. It didn't take long for the chains to get tight. My husband and I would live for the next high. When we were messed up we always talked about being better parents, doing things different, but morning would come with black clouds and nothing was worse than being up all night and coming off of drugs. You still had to take care of your children. We would always fight after. Things just got worse. I must tell you that we went to church with my mom a few times, everytime I went up for prayer, I wanted to be free, but how? My mom must have got discouraged at times, she started praying for us when I was 15. It wasn't until 10 yrs later that we started on our journey of freedom! 10 yrs seems  a long time, but God is not bound by time! 

I clearly remember the day that things started to shift in the spiritual.....my husband and I were fighting again and my 4 yr old and 1 yr old were scared and hid behind these chairs. I would go after him and yell and scream and he would slam me on the ground. Our fights were pretty serious. I left and went driving down the road, crying, angry.  My Husband ( we will call him "D") was pretty drunk so I thought I better go get my kids, so I turned around. when I walked in the house "D" was passed out on the couch and my little ones had fallen asleep crying behind them chairs....I will never forget the shame and despair at that moment. I cried out to God. I did not want to live this way anymore! I called my older brother who had cleaned up his life by this point. He sent us the money, the next day we packed what  we could in an illegal car and drove 8 hrs to our "new life".

Things didn't magically disappear. It was rough at first. I had no idea how to live without being high. My brother supported us for 6 months. He bought our cigs, fed our children, put up with our bad attitudes. Our bodies had many physical effects from the withdraws. That was probably  one of the worst times in my whole life, next to my parents divorcing.

 my husbands alcohol problem got worse. I was still full of anger and bitterness. I was attending church and trying, but when "D" would come home from work drunk I would get so mad. We'd fight, I'd cry, he got worse. In the meantime God lead me to a different church family. There is alot to that story too, but I won't go that way. I heard things like, God being a deliverer, about a real power in Jesus name. The image I had of God was Him being far away and unforgiving. (I know messed up) I really started to dig into God's word and pray all the time. One time "D" called me after work and I could tell he had been drinking.( He also said he wanted to quit and I went on the rollercoaster ride of broken promises and feeling sorry for myself and kids) Well instead of yelling at him I went and prayed. I lifted up my hands to God and "gave" my husband to Him. I meant it! God opened my eyes and I knew I could not make him quit or hate him into it. Love was the answer and that was my new goal! When "D" walked in the door, I told him I loved him and I knew God would set him free! A couple weeks later I got baptized, "D" came. A sister in the church told him he would be next, a few weeks later he was!! He stepped out on his own to have the saints pray for him. I will never forget the memory of them circling around him laying there hands on him, praying and "D" was crying. He has never touched a drop since that day! He even quit smoking before I did!

  I know this was a long post, but I hope that you can see that nothing is to hard for God! No one is to far gone! I don't care how long its been God is able! Don't give up! Don't lose hope! Love does cover a multitude of sins!  4 out of my moms 5 children have given there lives to God, and the youngest is well on his way! That is a miracle!

I

Here is a link to my testimony song.....I wrote it awhile ago, but have just now figured a way to get it on here. Share with everyone and be encouraged our God is on the throne!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab-MUxfeWJo

[Beth]

   If anyone is interested here is a new blog about these issues.   http://daughtersofsarah.wordpress.com/

[Beth]

Okay, I've been doing alot of praying lately that God would guide us into what seems to be missing in our quest for, if you'll let me use the term, recovery process. Things are going well and we are seeing great changes in our relationship with each other. My husband is having more success than he has for years. To me it seemed to hinge on a change in attitude by me... I stopped being so angry at him, I started to show him more love, respect, and just plain old fashioned kindness.  I started letting go of his failures. It has not been easy. But with God's help we're making it happen.
 So in the back of my mind I thought why is this change making such a difference? I don't get it. (we have also been taking herbs, vitamins, eating right etc. and I believe that also makes a difference)
Well I had a link in my blog to this site http://www.thrivingrecovery.org/     I had found through http://www.deeperwalkinternational.com/
(formerly ICBC ) but had never really checked it out just made a mental note to go back and research it more. I went and listened to the free video on the front page of the Thrive site. Here is a description for some dvds you can purchase.
Here's an overview of his lectures:
Session 1: Our brain and life works best when we are empowered by joyful relationships with God and others.   Using fresh research that points out the importance of joy for healthy brain development, this workshop will explain how relationships help build strong capacity for joy, and describe how a lack of joyful capacity leads to the development of multiple addictions.   Joyful relationships provide the brain what it needs to avoid and recover from addictions.
Session 2: Trauma is an experience of a series of experiences that overwhelm our emotional capacity.   This workshop will describe the unique effects of 2 types of trauma and how they impact our brain and life.  The workshop will also explore dissociation, triggering and relapse – and will focus on how we can begin to heal.

What fascinated me was how joy can actually make a difference in our brain development and also in healing it!! I think Debi did a study of joy in her first book... amazing. I'm going to look up some verses on joy and see if scripture backs up what I believe these dvds are teaching. I have purchased them and I'll try to do a review of them either here or on my blog.
I'm really excited about this!  A Merry heart really does do good like a medicine!!

[Gabriel Anast]

I know I am a guy... and this is Sarah'sDaughters... but this post is awesome. The very same thing totally changed my life. I was a fairly bitter / angry person until I was about 29 I think... I watched this sermon by this Church of God guy from Powder Springs, GA. In it he described in very simple terms how bitterness breaks every relationship and gratefulness does the opposite... especially as concerns God.

It was so amazing to me. That very night I let go of so much bitterness. It took a while for me to work it all out... but, man alive! Joy, gratefulness and plain old satisfaction with God and who He is... what a huge difference that made in my life.

Anyway... I cannot agree more, and you know we pray for you and your crew. God bless you in this next journey.

--gabe

[Beth]

It was so amazing to me. That very night I let go of so much bitterness. It took a while for me to work it all out... but, man alive! Joy, gratefulness and plain old satisfaction with God and who He is... what a huge difference that made in my life.

Anyway... I cannot agree more, and you know we pray for you and your crew. God bless you in this next journey.

--gabe

Yes, Joy is an amazing thing! I just cannot say it enough... and I do remember to pray for you and yours also...thank you for praying for us... prayer changes things!

[LearningLady]

Okay, I've been doing alot of praying lately that God would guide us into what seems to be missing in our quest for, if you'll let me use the term, recovery process. Things are going well and we are seeing great changes in our relationship with each other. My husband is having more success than he has for years. To me it seemed to hinge on a change in attitude by me... I stopped being so angry at him, I started to show him more love, respect, and just plain old fashioned kindness.  I started letting go of his failures. It has not been easy. But with God's help we're making it happen.

That is really wonderful to hear!! Awesome

Session 1: Our brain and life works best when we are empowered by joyful relationships with God and others.   Using fresh research that points out the importance of joy for healthy brain development, this workshop will explain how relationships help build strong capacity for joy, and describe how a lack of joyful capacity leads to the development of multiple addictions.   Joyful relationships provide the brain what it needs to avoid and recover from addictions.
Session 2: Trauma is an experience of a series of experiences that overwhelm our emotional capacity.   This workshop will describe the unique effects of 2 types of trauma and how they impact our brain and life.  The workshop will also explore dissociation, triggering and relapse – and will focus on how we can begin to heal.

This makes so much sense. Its amazing how God provides everything we could ever need. Who would have thought joy is so amazing for our health.
Thank you Lord for your joy!

Thanks for posting this. I am even more motivated to live daily in His joy!

[Beth]

I would like to post a question....it is going to sound a bit....controversial. That isn't exactly the right word I just can't think of a better one. 

What is it about someone in a marriage with problems, that make others want to avoid them?               Pity?              Just don't know what to say?                 Afraid of being associated with less than perfection?                   

It is a problem that I have noticed for quite a few years now. I'm sure if others(in less than perfect situations) were as "foolhardy" as I am they might admit they have felt it too.    

 It seems to me that people who are self confidant rarely do this. (avoid people with problems) I guess I would use the term  go-to-gals. The best friends I have ever had are almost always go-to-gals....why is that?     

I am not accusing anyone....please don't misunderstand....I just really want to know.  Does the problem lie with me (or other women like me)? How do women who have troubles make you feel? 

Don't know as I'll get any answers....but, I really do want to know.   If you have an opinion, please, please share it with me.

[denim&lace]

Life is hard.  Even for the people who 'have it easy'.  It may just be a case of people not having the emotional capacity to deal with more than their own lives.  It's much easier to make a donation at the center for abused women than it is to be involved in a friendship where you may actually think your friend could be abused but they are trusting in God for protection instead of men ...  KWIM?  Being emotionally involved is draining and IMO few people have the capacity to give that much of themselves.     

 

[herbfever]

 

Life is hard.  Even for the people who 'have it easy'.  It may just be a case of people not having the emotional capacity to deal with more than their own lives.  It's much easier to make a donation at the center for abused women than it is to be involved in a friendship where you may actually think your friend could be abused but they are trusting in God for protection instead of men ...  KWIM?  Being emotionally involved is draining and IMO few people have the capacity to give that much of themselves.     

 

Really good post D&L!

[uptrapperdansgirl]

I just wanted to offer my opinions here....Just hope I am understanding what you are asking.

What is it about someone in a marriage with problems, that make others want to avoid them?    For some it is that they can't handle someone else's issues plus there own. For me, when I first started walking with God, I was easily discouraged. I didn't go out of my way to avoid folks with issues, but I didn't go out of my way to get involved either. I had a friend early in my walk that had marriage issues....always after our visits I was so confused and I would think things like, "if she claims to be a christian and her life is like that, what about me? where do I stand? Where is my hope?" It was so heart-breaking to me to see all these broken lives and it kept me up at night. I wondered often how I would be free if these folks I saw were supposed to be serving God and yet there lives were a wreck yrs later.

Pity??? For me if I pitied a person, I would offer love whenever I could. So I don't think pity would be why...

Sometimes people don't know what to say. Maybe there are confused and discouraged as I was.

Afraid of being associated with less than perfection? If a person was really thinking this way and loved the Lord they would need to pray for help for this.  He has not come to call the righteous, but the sinners to repentance.

It seems to me that people who are self confidant rarely do this

I found this statement interesting as it confirms to me that a person who is" new" in the Lord or not a believer at all would not be able to handle these things, but one who is strong, confident in there walk with the Lord, confident in his abilities to save and keep....these types would not be moved by someones strong holds or weakness. Because they were once in need of God to do the same things for them and they can without waver believe God for you as well!! That is where confidence comes from.

Does the problem lie with me (or other women like me)? How do women who have troubles make you feel? 

It used to discourage me, but now as I rest in God's ability to save and change people I can handle these things with the peace (confidence in Him) and love. But sometimes you have to step back and let God do the work. There are times when it doesn't matter what you tell a person, they cannot or will not hear. Or they are so wrapped up in there own hurt and bitterness that no one can help them except God! God knows what will move you. He knows our hearts. He knows the things we hold onto and refuse to let go.....he knows every weakness every strength. What people cannot do, God can.

I would encourage you to search your own heart and ask God to help you let go of all the weights.  Rest in His love for you as I am sure you do. Thank him for the go-to-gals that he sends your way. He knows just what you need! I hope I have helped some and understood what it is you are asking....lots of hugs and love from me to you!

[Mrs. B]

Beth... Very good question.  I don't know that my answer is that good though.
For me it is difficult to spend alot of time with women having marriage issues due to the fact that most women, it seems, don't want God to repair things, but want things to be the way 'they' want them to be.  That, or they are looking for validation for divorce.
I find that they want to discuss the drama and keep rehashing 'all that they have been thru' without truly wanting to change their heart and walk.

I have a hard time dwelling with all the negativity towards husbands.  I also have a difficult time not seeing things get 'fixed'... even if it is just a personal attitude adjustment on my friend's part.
I just have a hard time listening to the same issues over and over, and not seeing any practical changes made to repair these.
Maybe it is just me, but I tend to really dwell and internalize issues such as these, and to never see any change in heart is very disappointing to me. 

I think that the women I've known with issues, few really sought God in the matter.  Maybe I'm just running with a really bad crowd     but with those who have been seeking God it isn't hard to be around them, and be supportive of them.  Yes, it is emotionally draining, but it is also wonderful to see what God can do from the front row as well.

On another note... I also find that dealing with maritial issues tends to turn a sharp eye on the state of your own.  It makes all the little imperfections stand out, and leads to questioning in a not-so-good way.  I've always considered it just another of Satan's ways of trying to destroy us....  putting those little thoughts and ideas into our heads.

[herbfever]

Beth... Very good question.  I don't know that my answer is that good though.
For me it is difficult to spend alot of time with women having marriage issues due to the fact that most women, it seems, don't want God to repair things, but want things to be the way 'they' want them to be.  That, or they are looking for validation for divorce.
I find that they want to discuss the drama and keep rehashing 'all that they have been thru' without truly wanting to change their heart and walk.

I have a hard time dwelling with all the negativity towards husbands.  I also have a difficult time not seeing things get 'fixed'... even if it is just a personal attitude adjustment on my friend's part.
I just have a hard time listening to the same issues over and over, and not seeing any practical changes made to repair these.
Maybe it is just me, but I tend to really dwell and internalize issues such as these, and to never see any change in heart is very disappointing to me. 

I think that the women I've known with issues, few really sought God in the matter.  Maybe I'm just running with a really bad crowd     but with those who have been seeking God it isn't hard to be around them, and be supportive of them.  Yes, it is emotionally draining, but it is also wonderful to see what God can do from the front row as well.

On another note... I also find that dealing with maritial issues tends to turn a sharp eye on the state of your own.  It makes all the little imperfections stand out, and leads to questioning in a not-so-good way.  I've always considered it just another of Satan's ways of trying to destroy us....  putting those little thoughts and ideas into our heads.

I think it was a great post.  The bolded part is the same for me.

[denim&lace]

Beth... Very good question.  I don't know that my answer is that good though.
For me it is difficult to spend alot of time with women having marriage issues due to the fact that most women, it seems, don't want God to repair things, but want things to be the way 'they' want them to be.  That, or they are looking for validation for divorce.
I find that they want to discuss the drama and keep rehashing 'all that they have been thru' without truly wanting to change their heart and walk.

I have a hard time dwelling with all the negativity towards husbands.  I also have a difficult time not seeing things get 'fixed'... even if it is just a personal attitude adjustment on my friend's part.
I just have a hard time listening to the same issues over and over, and not seeing any practical changes made to repair these.
Maybe it is just me, but I tend to really dwell and internalize issues such as these, and to never see any change in heart is very disappointing to me. 

I think that the women I've known with issues, few really sought God in the matter.  Maybe I'm just running with a really bad crowd     but with those who have been seeking God it isn't hard to be around them, and be supportive of them.  Yes, it is emotionally draining, but it is also wonderful to see what God can do from the front row as well.

On another note... I also find that dealing with maritial issues tends to turn a sharp eye on the state of your own.  It makes all the little imperfections stand out, and leads to questioning in a not-so-good way.  I've always considered it just another of Satan's ways of trying to destroy us....  putting those little thoughts and ideas into our heads.

That's a thoughtful post Mrs. B.  I remember when I wasn't a christian how the women I hung around with bashed their men all the time, and it's true that trying to keep your thoughts positive about your own marriage in that situation is difficult.  Especially if you spend a LOT of time in that type of company.  
  

[AndysJess]

Maybe because allowing others' marital problems to enter into your conciousness might make you have to focus on problems in your own marriage.  I know that before I had a major eye-opening experience, I didn't want to look to closely at the state of my relationship with my husband.  On the surface, everything seemed fine so I was happy letting things just float along.  Underneath, though, things were roiling out of control.  If you look to closely at problems, you might just have to deal with it!

[Beth]

Life is hard.  Even for the people who 'have it easy'.  It may just be a case of people not having the emotional capacity to deal with more than their own lives.  It's much easier to make a donation at the center for abused women than it is to be involved in a friendship where you may actually think your friend could be abused but they are trusting in God for protection instead of men ...  KWIM?  Being emotionally involved is draining and IMO few people have the capacity to give that much of themselves.     

This is a good point....one that I think is not the fault of of either.

   For some it is that they can't handle someone else's issues plus there own. For me, when I first started walking with God, I was easily discouraged. I didn't go out of my way to avoid folks with issues, but I didn't go out of my way to get involved either. I had a friend early in my walk that had marriage issues....always after our visits I was so confused and I would think things like, "if she claims to be a christian and her life is like that, what about me? where do I stand? Where is my hope?" It was so heart-breaking to me to see all these broken lives and it kept me up at night. I wondered often how I would be free if these folks I saw were supposed to be serving God and yet there lives were a wreck yrs later.

It seems to me that people who are self confidant rarely do this

I found this statement interesting as it confirms to me that a person who is" new" in the Lord or not a believer at all would not be able to handle these things, but one who is strong, confident in there walk with the Lord, confident in his abilities to save and keep....these types would not be moved by someones strong holds or weakness. Because they were once in need of God to do the same things for them and they can without waver believe God for you as well!! That is where confidence comes from.

yeah, lots of truth here too!

Beth... Very good question.  I don't know that my answer is that good though.
For me it is difficult to spend alot of time with women having marriage issues due to the fact that most women, it seems, don't want God to repair things, but want things to be the way 'they' want them to be.  That, or they are looking for validation for divorce.
I find that they want to discuss the drama and keep rehashing 'all that they have been thru' without truly wanting to change their heart and walk.

I have a hard time dwelling with all the negativity towards husbands.  I also have a difficult time not seeing things get 'fixed'... even if it is just a personal attitude adjustment on my friend's part.
I just have a hard time listening to the same issues over and over, and not seeing any practical changes made to repair these.
Maybe it is just me, but I tend to really dwell and internalize issues such as these, and to never see any change in heart is very disappointing to me. 

I think that the women I've known with issues, few really sought God in the matter.  Maybe I'm just running with a really bad crowd     but with those who have been seeking God it isn't hard to be around them, and be supportive of them.  Yes, it is emotionally draining, but it is also wonderful to see what God can do from the front row as well.

Mrs. B I would have to agree with you... most women don't seem to want to change... just pass the blame and wait for the other party to change.
Unfortunately, we can never really change others. But we can change ourselves. 
Again, I hear you say its hard to be around other people with problems... its hard to watch someone hurt or listen to alot of complaining.   That does seem to be a big part of it. 

Maybe because allowing others' marital problems to enter into your conciousness might make you have to focus on problems in your own marriage.  I know that before I had a major eye-opening experience, I didn't want to look to closely at the state of my relationship with my husband.  On the surface, everything seemed fine so I was happy letting things just float along.  Underneath, though, things were roiling out of control.  If you look to closely at problems, you might just have to deal with it!

that might be .... I guess I wouldn't know....


Thank you for so many thoughtful answers....I have a lot to think about. I think some of these things are out of anyone's control to change. It's just the way it is.

I sincerely hope I have not been one to complain... maybe I have.... I really did just want solutions. 

[Beth]

As I've been thinking over all of your answers... I realized that no one seemed to think it was out of pity..... and as I thought of that I felt relief!    I think that would have bothered me.

I watched a movie somewhere, sometime, I can't remember who said it or even the title of it. But it goes something like this. A woman in some kind of sad situation says...." pity? no... please...pity scares me!"     I can sympathize entirely! 

[Beth]

hey all you girls inspired me to write! I wrote a new blog post using your wise words of wisdom....check it out if you want. Don't worry,  I gave you the credit. Thanks again for answering so honestly, it was quite enlightening!

http://daughtersofsarah.wordpress.com/2010/06/24/friendships-we-all-need-them-dont-we/

[Beth]

In recent times we have been re- evaluating what is called moderationism.....we have tried and failed at this before.....but, it would seem to be "working". ( not the word I'm looking for, but ...)  I have compiled some information over the last couple of years.....and on my blog have written an small article on it for anyone struggling with alcoholism. It is a viable option that has worked for many.

Just felt the need to put it out.... do the research. There is plenty of it available for you if you are interested.

http://daughtersofsarah.wordpress.com/2010/09/06/reconsidering-moderation/

[Beth]

After much thought....I have decided to close my blog down....lots of reasons, maybe I'll write more on other subjects someday. I just don't feel qualified and I just don't have the heart to keep it going. Tim and I are doing  just fine by the way..... Just some other stuff that is sort of wearing me down and I just need to get away from it all. 

Anyway if there was anyone on here who wanted to copy or get some links off of the blog I'm going to leave it up for a couple of weeks yet....Thanks for all who read. I do hope it was helpful to someone. I know it was helpful to me to write and know that someone was there "listening"! Thank you.

[freshisbest]

Beth you are an inspiration right here....if it means we get more of you then good for us!

[Beth]

Beth you are an inspiration right here....if it means we get more of you then good for us!

Well thank you....  I have so enjoyed 7xsunday.... learned so much from so many of you lovely gals (and the guys too). I do plan on sticking around here....

Just thought I would let you all know that on October 1st I will be "closing" the blog. Feel free to read or copy anything until then. I wish I could have found a way to make it a private blog in a convenient way..... no luck.....I feel the need to let God work on me for a while anyway. 

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