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[knitting another]

Its been a while since I've been on 7xsunday but now I have a question/need help.  I'm having problems in my marriage and I'm sure most of it is my fault.  My husband and I have 4 children: 9, 8, 6 & 2 1/2 (plus there were 6 miscarriages in the mix of which 2 were pretty horrid). We've been married almost 11 years and dated about 5 years prior to that.  I just turned 46 this month. The 'problem' is that my husband wants/needs/requires sexual relations on a regular basis - everyday if possible but at least 3 times a week.  My problem is I have NO desire and no need. I feel like I could go forever without needing to have relations. and he wants 'active' participation. If I don't 'want' it but say okay, let's go, he gets mad at me and won't because I'm not 'wanting' it. 

I work full time outside of the home and my hubby stays home with the kids and homeschools. This is due to a legal stance he took several years ago which i won't get into here.  I like my job but the people I work with are downers - very negative, unsaved, gossipers, etc. My boss can be nice at times but he can also be very tyrannical.

I also do all the running around with the kids. two of the four play hockey so I am back and fourth with hockey practices during the week and games that take up the whole weekend (a lot of traveling involved with this). This is something my husband really wanted the kids involved with.

Before meeting my husband, I owned a home in a nice town. When we got married, we sold the house (his decision), moved out of state away from family (his choice), rented a house for a couple of months then he didn't want to 'waste' money on rent anymore so we moved onto our property (again, his decision) and 'camped' for several months till it got too cold and then me and the three kids bounced around for several months until he got the basement capped off and we could move in. We've been living in the basement for 5 years now while we slowly build our home.

I am a very private person so this is taking a LOT for me to share with the world. I am not a woman who discusses things with people about my husband or our relationship. I never talk negatively about him to anyone. I am not out to publicly embarrass him - I just need help!!  You are the first people I am turning to asking for help. I don't even talk to my mom about my problems/issues (she is unsaved).

I think I am saved, although that is debatable considering some of the things my husband has said to me or called me. I can surely tell you there are times I don't 'feel' saved.  I have very little joy.  I read mr. pearls latest article on cheerfulness and certainly i don't have that. I have no dreams, no hope.  My husband will talk about doing this or that and all I can think to myself is, "oh more pipe dreams." Yes, he's a mr. visionary. And, yes, I've read Debi's book but here I be...

It seems like every time my husband and I have relations I end up with a yeast infection or some other type of 'issue' that is not very comfortable to deal with. I am approaching menopause and my cycle is totally out of whack.  the doctor has me on bc to try and 'regulate' my cycle.  I'm wondering if this bc is actually causing depression in me - i'm monitoring that.

I know I've rambled on here and I apologize for jumping around. I just need help!!  I have no one to turn to and am hoping I can find a sister here who can guide me, teach me, lead me, help me. I hope I have posted this in the right section.

thanks for listening...

[SC lady]

Knitting, I just wanted you to know that I'm praying for you and for those that might offer counsel. {{hugs}}

[ladyhen]

thanks for listening...

I'm listening, and praying now.    This an important function of God's people. 

I don't have much time to post today, but I will continue to pray about this and try to post some later.   There is a lot going on in your life and I think it would be difficult to pinpoint any one thing that will be  THE  answer. 

Have you read anything on WellTellMe, a natural health website?   Here  is a thread about yeast infections, and  here  is a thread about helping with desire problems.   Maybe if you can read some on these threads while waiting for answers from members here, it will give you some encouragement, ideas, or answers.

{{{{hug}}}}

[uptrapperdansgirl]

Just know that I am praying for you as well. God sees it all and no tear goes unnoticed. Hang on and your help will come.  Lay it all at your saviors feet. He can and will restore every broken place! He loves you, rest in that love......

[veggie]

Knitting Another, I am glad that you were willing to share here on 7X.  This is about as private as it gets -- sharing anonymously and (hopefully) receiving helpful counsel!  I understand your attachment to privacy as I am much the same and for that reason I don't post a lot on 7X either!  Another part of your post that I can relate to is your lack of "desire" which has been a issue for me in the past. I am glad to report that is no longer the case, so there is hope!  :-)
Here is what I am hearing you say:

1.  There are marital problems which you feel are probably your fault (this is not necessarily the case)
2.  Your husband's preference is for daily intimacy with you actively participating.  You are willing to accomodate, but have no desire whatsoever.  This angers your husband.
3.  You are 46 with 10 pregnancies behind you
4.  You are approaching menopause and your cycle is currently "messed up"
5.  You are a mother to 4 young children
6.  You work full time outside the home, which is sometimes a stressful situation
7.  Your husband is the "keeper at home"
8.  You are the primary "errand runner" which involves significant travel in addition to your job
9.  Before getting married (it sounds like) your life was quite nice and orderly.  You are now living with a "visionary" and life's provisions have not necessarily been stable
10.  You are uncertain of your salvation and it appears that DH does not offer much in the way of encouragement
11.Intimate relations seem to leave you with undesirable physical ailments such as yeast infections, etc.

Does that sum things up?  :-)

Knitting Another, you will likely receive a lot of advice from many women much wiser than myself.  In fact, I do not consider myself wise.  Just sympathetic and searching for answers in my own life's journey.  It's a process that takes time.  Whatever your struggles, there is no magic pill that you can take today that will make everything better tomorrow.  But there is hope!

The first thing I want to say is that you can only deal with your own issues.  There is so much emphasis on this forum for women to be submissive wives that one would almost think it is soley the woman's responsibility to create a successful marriage.  I do not disagree necessarily with the role of a wife as presented on 7X.  I just wish there was AT LEAST equal attention given to the responsibilities of a husband.  Okay, I'll get off my soap box.  :-)  But again, you cannot change your husband and I do suspect (my own opinion here) that he has at least some responsibilities in the troubles that plague your marriage. 

So what can you do?  I believe from what you describe, that at the very least you have some chemical imbalance.  I also believe, from personal experience, that no matter how much "Truth" you know, it is very difficult to think and behave with reason and balance if vital physical needs are not being met.  Therefore, in my opinion, meeting your physical needs is the logical starting point.  There are some who would argue with me and they may be right.  I can only speak from my own experience.  With 10 pregnancies, 6 being mis-carriages, your body has been through A LOT.  That's not including all the nursing, the sleep dis-ruptions, etc.  I would start with some serious supplementation. A book I would like to recommend is "The Brain Chemistry Plan".  I have been following the plan for my particular personality type (there is a test in the book) and I can attest to the improvements in rational thinking and behavior when one's chemical deficits start being met.  I have long term goals to change my lifestyle and diet and excercise consistently, etc....all the typical goals, but sometimes you need help NOW.  And I have found that supplementing in the way this book recommends has been very helpful to me -- it is simple enough that I don't feel overwhelmed by it.  Seriously, I have a new found motivation to be the best person I can be.  No, my problems haven't all disappeared, but there is motivation and clearer thinking that is making a difference in my life, marriage and relationship to my children.

Along with what I mention above, what are some adjustments you can make that would ease some of the stress of your burdens?  Are there hobbies, books, activities you might need to cut back on for right now so that you are better rested or better able to manage your schedule?  I have no clue -- just brainstorming.  The bottom line I am trying to convey is that (I believe) you need to start with meeting your physical needs so you can deal with the "big stuff" in the right frame of mind.

Once you are feeling better perhaps you would be in a better frame of mind to communicate with your husband (?)  I put a question mark here because obviously I don't know him and how he is likely to respond.  Likely you are both reacting to each other right now.  I imagine he feels hurt that you do not desire him.  I think this is understandable.  I also wonder how he feels about the fact that he is the man, but you are the one providing for the family.  Don't beat yourself up over the way you feel right now.  You are not alone in this struggle and I believe there are solutions that can help.   Does that make sense?  Perhaps if he sees improvements in your overall approach to life, he will be more open to discussing some of the issues you are facing and more willing to make it a team effort, rather than you being the one with all the problems that needs to change (again, my opinon is that he shares some part in your troubles).

On a very practical note....the yeast infections.  If you have the time, browse through 7X and/or WTM.  There is bound to be information and helpful hints on dealing with these type of issues.  Again, I can relate to some of this. 

I hope this helps! 

 

[denim&lace]

Knitting Another...  Praying here on  your behalf to the God that can do more than we can think or ask...

 

[knitting another]

Thank you all soooo much for the prayers, the hugs and for the advice!! I was so worried when I first put the post up but you've all been great!  and Veggie, thanks for your love and understanding. I really appreciate your support. This has been really tough for me. I want to be there for my hubby, I really do.  Lady Hen - that one link you posted from welltellme regarding 'desires' was a great help.  A lot of information in there and more for me to look into - THANK YOU!!    I get so overwhelmed when I go to welltellme sometimes as I just don't know how to look things up!! 

And, yes, prayer. It is something, believe it or not, I have NOT prayed about. I feel really weird praying about that - I don't know why but I do.   Maybe I need to pray about the issues that are causing me to not be able to pray about that subject!!

Thank you all again.

[Homeschool_Newbie]

Hi Knitting Another.. I am going to keep this situation in my prayers. One thing I want to throw out there: have you researched probiotics to prevent those yeast infections?

[amy3js]

Some great suggestions so far.  I liked veggie's post and was also going to suggest starting out with correcting any health problems.  I was thinking more along the lines of hormonal imbalance, especially considering your time of life. I would suggest reading "Health, Happiness and Hormones" By Steven F. Hotze. It talks about hormones, candida, thyroid, adrenals , allergies and how they all tie in together. And there is also lots of info on WTM, but it is easier to search WTM if you already know what your health problem is, so I would suggest reading a good book that can help diagnose you first, but that's just my 2 cents. 

I would also agree with veggie that all the problems in your marriage probably aren't all your fault, I'm sure your human husband has made his mistakes too, but you are right that you can only change yourself. I honestly don't know what to tell you to change or how to fix things, I'm young and there are women with much better advice than I on here! I do know praying and seeking after God's advice and doing what he says is the most important step.  I am praying for you and I hope things get better soon. 

[BJ_BOBBI_JO]

Not only can chemical issues cause a lack of desire but so can just plain old depression and hopelessness. So can stress, money troubles and so many other things. It can literally make one never want to get intimate ever again espeically if the spouse is the cause of a great deal of the stress.

Im not sure what can help that other then lots of prayer and endurance for handling the stressors.

Also, if a woman is getting yeast infections often from her husband then he needs to be treated as well other wise the wife will just keep getting yeast over and over from him.

[provided4]

Micah 6.8
Focus on what is required of YOU. But don't attach blame to yourself. Isn't that a back door to the pride issue? If you make it all your fault then you are assuming it is up to you to fix it as well. Depend and rely on The Lord to fix you,  and let Him fix your dh. Sometimes men are not thinking there is anything physically wrong with them and they do not like to be told when it is. Even if it comes from a Dr.!! Physical issues are a valid reason for a lot of things but you can only lead a horse to water not make him drink. You may think he needs a Dr., for instance, but HE needs to take himself there. My husband can be really difficult ( understatement) if he hasn't eaten all day. He will go without lunch because he was " too busy" and then be a bear when he gets home. Instead of engaging in the ( attitude) and creating a whole host of new issues by our behavior, sometimes simply putting a steak in front of him so he will then go to bed early will smooth everything over by morning.  Things will not change overnight and you have to resubmit yourself and your situation to The Lord and ask for new understanding. Sometimes daily. Sometimes hourly. You can only change you.
When they " lash out" at ( you) they are sometimes just lashing out at themselves ... your insecurities make it seem about you and his insecurities want to make it about you not him. Reacting to the outbursts just feeds those insecurities. Better to back off and get some protein on the table and get the kids in bed ( or into their routine whatever it is) . I suppose if he is deep down feeling inadequate at that moment the best thing to do is make him feel adequate. Sometimes you won't know what the problem is...but you have to accept that as well.

[starbuck]

I have commented on several posts, good comments I might add and they have been deleted. The point of posting is to get feed back, some comments you might like others not so much, I have not broken any rules and if mine were deleted because I spoke the truth or didn’t add bible versus and side with the husband then you are all very closed minded, and I feel sorry for you.

I do hope you resolve things with your husband but don’t stay just because you think that your kids would better off staying in that environment.

[denim&lace]

I'm glad this thread was bumped.  It reminded me to pray for you again knitting another.   

[lovetoreadmom]

This particular paragraph caught my attention, and I've written the below to be an encouragement.  I hope it is.  Also, I'll be praying for you!! 

I think I am saved, although that is debatable considering some of the things my husband has said to me or called me.

Romans 8:16 - "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God." (KJV)

(Added later) I believe this verse tells us that our salvation depends on what the Lord tells us or says to us, not on how we feel or on what another person tells us or calls us.  JMO

The next passage I would encourage you to read it its entirety, but I've highlighted some verse that I think are especially helpful!! 

I John 5:1, 4, 12-13 - "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him . . . For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world:  and this the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith . . . He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

I can surely tell you there are times I don't 'feel' saved.  I have very little joy.  I read mr. pearls latest article on cheerfulness and certainly i don't have that. I have no dreams, no hope. 

Again , I would read all of John 15, but I've highlighted what I think is esp. encouraging. 
John 15:11 - These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full."

Jer.17:7 - "Blessed [is] the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. "

Romans15:13 - Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

(Added later) - What a promise of God - see below

Jeremiah 33:3 - Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not.

One final thing . . . if you can listen to this hymn, I would strongly encourage.  It's beautiful, and to me it's just sooooo encouraging!!  I've posted the link below. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtQ09XAm4KE

[rejoicing]

Draw near to Him and He will lift you up.  He will lead you beside His still waters and fill you with a peace no one else can give you.  I would suggest a lot of time in prayer and praise for rest and renewal.  Then I would study the Bible to build your strength and direction. 
Here are some starting points that come to mind...

Forgiveness and salvation go hand in hand.  Sometimes when we have a hard time with one we might be struggling with the other.
1 John 1:7-9, Rom. 3, Rom. 5:1-8, Col 3:13, Eph. 4:32, Mark 11:25,  Heb 12:3
and through forgiveness we can find joy...
John 16:20-24, Acts 2:27-28, 1 chron 16:27, Ps 21:6, Ps 6:3, Ps 100:2,
I would start praying and studying those topics. 
Also, you sound so tired.
Matt 11:28 , Jer 31:25, Rom 5:2-11, 1 Chron16:10-32

Love ya in the Lord. (HUGS)

[SC lady]

Okay, this is one of those posts that could have gone on several threads,  but since this one has the most recent activity, I'm placing it here. My post is not specifically aimed at posts in this thread, but it is related to similar posts/threads.

The elephant in the room on several of these marriage threads seems to be that there are two different philosophies/approaches to a wife’s role in marriage.

One approach promotes the idea that if a woman is good enough in her actions, behaviors and/or attitudes, then she can change her man, somehow make him better than he was/is. The idea seems to be that if she just finds the right trick, he can become putty in her hands. They suggest that the man wouldn’t drink/gamble/carouse/be mean/angry/whatever so much if WIFE had a better attitude. If she is skilled enough, she can become the hidden puppeteer and pull the strings to make her man dance to her tune. Her identity as a woman rests on how well she is able to spur her man on to greatness (as she defines it) or handle life’s difficulties for him. These wives are then divided into two groups: the ones that want ‘good’ things and the ones that want ‘bad’ things. The women that want bad things are called selfish/bad/mean while the ones that want good things are labeled suffering saints until their men see the light and ‘come around.’ In my opinion, they are both in the same usurping boat because BOTH types seek to direct the man.

The other approach to marriage has wives that are seeking to honor God in the circumstance. They don’t serve their husbands based on some merit program or based upon how/if/whether or not their tactics will make him ‘see the light.’ These are women that remain because they have determined to honor God in difficult/dire circumstances. Their hearts are committed to serving HIM and bringing HIM glory. These are not silly women who imagine that their marriage would be improved if only their husband would ‘listen to’ them (read that follow the wife). These are women that understand that God has appointed the man as the head and that God knows EXACTLY how to smack that man if he needs it.

God doesn’t play, ladies. It’s healthy to fear Him.

There is no point (that I can find in the Bible) in "standing up to your husband." Either stay, and figure out how to make it work, or leave and find a believing man.

I second that. This isn’t the time to be toying with manipulations or tactics on how to get a man to improve/change. It’s not about blaming a woman for a man’s bad choices (or suggesting that his poor choices are caused by her). The question is whether or not we are where God wants us to be and whether or not we are serving Him in that place.

That’s just my opinion.

[lovetoreadmom]

Thank you, SC.  Your post has reminded me that many times I do things as the "good" wife you described in the first category.  I want my DH to change (himself or some decision he's made), and what I need to remember is that either I need to change or I need to simply let God deal with "whatever" might be the issue at the time without my opinion or interference.    It's humbling! 

[SimplyTrusting]

Boy did I need to read that. Thank you SC.

[TenThousandYears]

Thanks SC    What a gem!  (worth a lot more than 2 cents!)

I really appreciate the wisdom that is shared on this board. 

[Beth]

  I think being able to see why we do what we do is the key. Is our motivation love of God or getting what we want in the end.        Sometimes its tough because our situation is one none of us want to live in we want it to change!                           What we have to accept is that we are not responsible for anothers choices. Good or bad! Can we live with that?      That is probably a daily decision for some.                               Good advice sc lady.   

[denim&lace]

Spot on SC. 

[Free Woman]

Knitting Another-I just wanted to tell you something from my experience that may help you.  I have been married for almost 12 years.  For 9 of those years, and before, I doubted my salvation.  I had "said a prayer" or asked God to save me at least 4 times but I still felt unforgiven and hopeless.  It wasn't until 3 years ago that I finally realized what salvation was and was truly born again.  I have not doubted it since.  Several years before that I had written to the Pearls for advise and part of there response was a tape called "Hell's Best Kept Secret."  You can listen to it online at   www.livingwaters.com  It was through this tape that I realized why my sin was worthy to send me to hell.  Before, I never made the connection in my heart.  ( By the way, I know Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron have some doctrinal problems, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.)  I didn't get saved right away because I didn't want to admit I was unsaved.  I had been raised in a Baptist home and everyone thought I was saved and it made me angry to think I reached my 20's and nobody had made this clear to me.  I fought against it for several years.  In the meantime, we moved 3 hours away, away from family and friends, my husband was a otr truck driver and attended a church with a controlling, hard preaching pastor (Hyles-Anderson College graduate), who preached a lot on different sins, intending it toward the Christians but it really hit me hard as a sinner.  All these things brought me to a VERY low point, under very heavy conviction.  One day I was listening to Wretched Radio (a radio program put out by Living Water's Ministry).  Kirk Cameron was speaking and was telling how when he heard about this way of winning the lost (using the law to bring conviction of sin), that he thought it was a cool way to witness but realized he had never applied it to himself.  It was then that he realized he was lost and then was born again.  This was on a Thursday or Friday.  It was then that I knew for sure that I was headed for hell, no fighting or resisting it and I was scared.  It was one of the most miserable few days of my life.  That Sunday Morning was Easter Sunday.  I was scheduled to work in the nursery which had an intercom.  I don't remember everything about the sermon but the main point he made was that Jesus was the only way to heaven and throughout his sermon he kept shouting " Jesus, Jesus."  At that point I realized that there was nothing to do but to yeild.  I remember sitting down in the rocking chair (I almost couldn't stand up) and saying to myself "Yes, Jesus, save me."  And this feeling of peace and joy overwhelmed my soul.  I have not doubted it since and I finally understood why people would get emotional when they talked about getting saved and would say things like "I'm so glad Christ saved my soul."  I could never understand such love and thankfulness before.  There were a few things that kept me from growing at first like not wanting to submit to my husband and feeling bitterness toward some of the things at out church (that is another story) I also struggle with addiction to sugar (sound funny, I know, but it was a real problem for me) which I am know getting a handle on.  But I always new I was forgiven and I could rejoice with the people on "Unshackled" when they got saved.  I am learning now to honor my husband and we are attending a new church which is helping me grow even more.  My relationship with my chidren is improving, though I still have  a long way to go.  I now have a desire to tell others, although old habits of  keeping my faith quiet have been hard to break.  Also, I work part time outside the home (teaching violin and piano lessons at a music store) and know a little what it's like. 
   
      I tell you all this to say, until you have your salvation settled, trying to change everything will seem useless.  You won't have a REAL, Eternal reason for doing it.  It just all becomes pointless.  Since I have been saved and learned to honor my husband, I have had more desire for intimacy than ever before.  Every decision I make now, I make from the view point of my salvation.  Christ has forgiven me, so I should forgive my husband.  Christ loved me enough to die for me, so I should love my husband enough to honor him.  There are times where I don't understand why I have to do things a certain way, but I know it works and when I disobey and do it my way, I am always miserable and end up apologizing.  In our marriage, it has been me that has made more of the mistakes and so that keeps me humble.

   I'm sorry to ramble on, but I hope this helps.  I wish someone had questioned my salvation long ago.  I had gone to many ladies for counsel over the years and they all gave me good advise but none of them ever asked me if I was saved, they just assumed.   

Praise God for his Grace

[rainygladness]

Thanks for sharing your testimony, I enjoyed it!   

I tell you all this to say, until you have your salvation settled, trying to change everything will seem useless.  You won't have a REAL, Eternal reason for doing it.  It just all becomes pointless. 

Like doing laundry in muddy water;  clean garments will not be the result until you begin with clean water.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 

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