next »

[David Coles]

Okay - practical question...

God has been laying some pretty heavy stuff on me and my family in the last year and we find ourselves at a crossroads.  Without getting into it all, here's the basics - I believe that we're being led to move to another state, out in the country, near to a good bit of land owned by the family.  We've talked about doing this for several years now, but for one reason or another (primarily job related) we haven't taken the jump.  In the last 12 months we've had all our priorities shaken up with the birth of our last son with Cerebral Palsy and the loss of my job and the start of our own business.

So, we're at a point where we're pretty much willing to do anything   But - things holding us back include a house that has foreclosures on either side, making it tough to sell in an already stupid housing market... a total lack of money to spend on doing something like moving... close family within 30 minutes of our current house VS 5 hours away.

Benefits include following God's will (at least, I think...), getting away from a metro area (for economic reasons as well as TEOTWAWKI (sorry folks, The End Of The World As We Know It... catchall for pretty much any big disaster) and revelation-based concerns), moving back to the family land is a biggie, plus it's out style anyhow, plus we want to integrate the kids into a small town society, etc...

SO, the big question... I have a trip planned in the next few weeks to go out to the farm and spend a day or two in the town we're considering moving to.  I'm looking forward to a good 10 hours of driving time to pray and seek God on this topic and some praying in the town as well... I feel like a man of little faith, but where's the line when it comes to seeking clear, unequivocal communication from God?  I know we're not supposed to test God, per Deut 6:16 as quoted by Jesus in Matt 4... although I haven't dug back through the history, including Massah to see if my "understanding" of the text is actually correct.  I've always been raised to believe that specifically asking God for a revelation or a sign in a situation like this was faithless or an example of "testing" God.

Is this true?

I can I (hopefully only once) do something like Gideon did and ask God for a specific sign to show me His will?  "Lord, we're willing to move here without knowing how or any of the details... if you want us to move forward with this, would you show me today, on this trip, where you would have us live? Or not, and we'll move forward with the understanding that it's not your will."

Can I do that?  Or should I just man up to what I believe God is telling me through all the other venues?  I suppose at the end of the day, I don't trust myself, and this is a pretty big deal for 5 other people than just myself...

Can I just ask for a sign?

-Dave

[Gabriel Anast]

I believe that we're being led to move to another state, out in the country, near to a good bit of land owned by the family.

Not sure what "being led" means to you, but make sure that whatever it means, it agrees in principle with the Bible. Frankly, it sounds from the brief details that you mention that it does.

But - things holding us back include a house that has foreclosures on either side, making it tough to sell in an already stupid housing market... a total lack of money to spend on doing something like moving... close family within 30 minutes of our current house VS 5 hours away.

As concerns these things, I think the Bible is pretty clear. Don't let money lead you, and in some cases following God will seem to those close to you like you hate them.

Benefits include following God's will (at least, I think...), getting away from a metro area (for economic reasons as well as TEOTWAWKI (sorry folks, The End Of The World As We Know It... catchall for pretty much any big disaster) and revelation-based concerns), moving back to the family land is a biggie, plus it's our style anyhow, plus we want to integrate the kids into a small town society, etc...

Those all seem huge to me... and to me (I can link other posts... but I think you may already have read the pertinent ones) they seem right according to the word of God and all the stories presented there.

SO, the big question... I have a trip planned in the next few weeks to go out to the farm and spend a day or two in the town we're considering moving to.  I'm looking forward to a good 10 hours of driving time to pray and seek God on this topic and some praying in the town as well... I feel like a man of little faith, but where's the line when it comes to seeking clear, unequivocal communication from God?  I know we're not supposed to test God, per Deut 6:16 as quoted by Jesus in Matt 4... although I haven't dug back through the history, including Massah to see if my "understanding" of the text is actually correct.  I've always been raised to believe that specifically asking God for a revelation or a sign in a situation like this was faithless or an example of "testing" God.

Is this true?

I don't think this is true in any way. The passages that you quote are about the people complaining against God, and "tempting" Him to kill them. See Massah in Leviticus 17, also called Meribah where the people complained against Moses for lack of water and called his bringing them out of Egypt a bad thing. The idea is that if one is chosen by God, they must not willfully decry Him or give up belief in Him, thus tempting His longsuffering and mercy. Numbers 14:18 The LORD [is] longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing [the guilty], visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation].

In other words, walk with Him in ignorance and fear, He in longsuffering and will teach you knowledge; walk with Him and fall by accident and repent, asking for more grace... His mercy is great and he give you grace according to your request and will strengthen you in this area. But don't presume on His longsufering and mercy to cover your unbelief. He will by no means clear the guilty. Thus, Jesus is not talking about testing God as in seeking direction or corroboration in willing belief, rather actions without belief: Not doing the will of God, but expecting Him to extend grace anyway. God's will was that Jesus should express the word of God, do the miracles that were given to Him by the Father, and to cleanse the people... not to do cool death defying stunts.

Mat 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
   And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
   Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

On the contrary Jacob's bargain with God was an expression of his faith (Gen 28, 33:15-20 and 35), as was Gideon's incredulity since he was such an "unknown" that he should be the one to defeat Midian (Judges 6), Elijah's repeated prayers for rain (1 kings 18:41ff), and even his asking for death when he felt he had done all he could (1 Kings 19:4ff)... I have heard this so many times referred to as Elijah sinning or giving up, yet it is not. It is him having done all to stand, falling into God's hand and refusing to be killed by the hand of man. Then being strengthened by God, spoken to directly by God, and established in strength to finish his calling and task before Him. Then there is Jesus instruction on how to pray in Luke 11:1-13 and also in Luke 18:1-8 where (in both places) He says that the one in need should implore Him with regularity and "importunity," literally shameless persistence.

Press Him. Press Him in faith, believing that He will give you what you need. You may need more faith. Good! Press Him for it. That is what Gideon did.

I can I (hopefully only once)...

Don't fear. He is a father. Press Him as much as you have need. He would rather that you asked for faith a hundred times than that you had no faith.

I can do something like Gideon did and ask God for a specific sign to show me His will?  "Lord, we're willing to move here without knowing how or any of the details... if you want us to move forward with this, would you show me today, on this trip, where you would have us live? Or not, and we'll move forward with the understanding that it's not your will."

Can I do that?  Or should I just man up to what I believe God is telling me through all the other venues?  I suppose at the end of the day, I don't trust myself, and this is a pretty big deal for 5 other people than just myself...

Can I just ask for a sign?

Ask for further corroboration. Either in prayer, or in some avenue that He has already said He would provide... food, clothing, a place to live, Matthew 6, Luke 12... and if He has led you in a specific way and you need [whatever] to accomplish the task, then ask Him for it, and remember to DO what He said to do as soon as the provision is given. Ecclesiastes 5:4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for [he hath] no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed. Better [is it] that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.

God bless you in your walk before Him.

--gabe

[David Coles]

I believe that we're being led to move to another state, out in the country, near to a good bit of land owned by the family.

Not sure what "being led" means to you, but make sure that whatever it means, it agrees in principle with the Bible. Frankly, it sounds from the brief details that you mention that it does

Perhaps "Being pushed" is a better way to put it... I'm confident at least in this point that the promptings to consider this are based on biblical principal...

But - things holding us back include a house that has foreclosures on either side, making it tough to sell in an already stupid housing market... a total lack of money to spend on doing something like moving... close family within 30 minutes of our current house VS 5 hours away.

As concerns these things, I think the Bible is pretty clear. Don't let money lead you, and in some cases following God will seem to those close to you like you hate them.

This is one of those times when it sounds good in a hymn but really makes you sit up and pay attention when it's time to do it yourself...

Press Him. Press Him in faith, believing that He will give you what you need. You may need more faith. Good! Press Him for it. That is what Gideon did.

I've been thinking back and trying to figure out where I went wrong in my understanding of how God works; I agree with this and I know it in my head, but when it comes to practice it's almost like I write myself off as faithless and just park.  It makes sense in terms of "Faith of a mustard seed" if you consider it in these terms - I know that I have faith, just not enough - but if the start is there, that is the seed that can grow into the mustard tree...

I have to stop condemning myself for not having a full grown mustard tree and realize that I can push God for more water, sunlight and growth...

I can I (hopefully only once)...

Don't fear. He is a father. Press Him as much as you have need. He would rather that you asked for faith a hundred times than that you had no faith.

Okay; that's a relief.  Boldly approach the throne

Can I just ask for a sign?

Ask for further corroboration. Either in prayer, or in some avenue that He has already said He would provide... food, clothing, a place to live, Matthew 6, Luke 12... and if He has led you in a specific way and you need [whatever] to accomplish the task, then ask Him for it, and remember to DO what He said to do as soon as the provision is given. Ecclesiastes 5:4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for [he hath] no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed. Better [is it] that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay.

I think this is the scariest part; in some ways I'm finding myself not actually wanting a clear answer.  There's comfort in ambiguity since it doesn't demand action.  My poor wife - she'll have plenty to talk to Noah's wife about when we finally make it home.  Not 'cause I'm anything like Noah, but you get the idea

I've stepped things up and will be making the trip tomorrow before the snow on Tuesday... I'll let you guys know what happens.  Pray for us...

-Dave

[Gabriel Anast]

Sweet. We are praying for you all.

--gabe

[David Coles]

Quite a trip... the heavens didn't open and the angles didn't sing, but several more doors were open... If you'd like to keep praying, it seems that I also have a specific - if God provides a storefront with living space above that we can live in, I don't see how I could say no.

Not that it's a deal breaker, but I have a strange confidence that he's going to provide one despite no such evidence... it wasn't on the radar before yesterday, and it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me, but there's something to it... I've got the town "economic development director" watching out for such a space, we'll see what happens.

God was very clear to me that there are specific answers for all of the (many) different specific problems that we're facing whether we stay or go... and that we won't get most of the answers until it's time for action.  SO, I think I know less than I did before, but I'm quite a bit more confident that God is paying attention and working specifically on our behalf.

Still praying for more faith and more confirmation, but so far I'm not being ignored     I just hope God knows that the economy is about to collapse and we're about to get locked down with Martial Law... God's timing, NOT MY TIMING...

-Dave

[Gabriel Anast]

Yeah, God's timing.

Isaiah 8:11 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, Say ye not, A confederacy (read: conspiracy), to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he shall be for a sanctuary

--gabe

[David Coles]

Isaiah 8:19-22 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God?  For the living to the dead?  To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.  And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse the their king and their God and look upward.  And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness

It doesn't seem like the alternative is very good; I think there may be some real parallels between invaded and exiled Israel and the next ten years here in the US... I don't know if the Assyrians are coming, but something is.

As I read through the chapter, it seems like a strange mix of "Assyria is going to overflow it's banks and invade you" and "The Savior is coming but he'll be a stumbling block to both houses of Israel" and back to "everyone is going to curse God and wander around in darkness"

Is the second part referring to the Assyrian invasion, or the darkness following the rejection of the Christ?  The references to hunger and being hard pressed and looking to the earth make me think back to the Assyrians.

-Dave

[Gabriel Anast]

Yeah... I have been studying this actually... you can see my thus far re-sectioned Isaiah here: Isaiah Sectioned

...maybe it might help the passage make more sense...

--gabe

[David Coles]

Very interesting...  you going to add interlinear commentary?

[Gabriel Anast]

Ha... oh man... once "LinguaFranca" is done, or I find some other tool that allows me to do it in some straight-forward way... know any programmers that need pro-bono projects?

--gabe

PS: My commentary will eventually go into the House of Joseph study... and if you want my commentary on a specific section, just post a thread here.

[Gabriel Anast]

I answered a PM about the passages from Isaiah quoted above in the thread here: Fear God... not what everyone else fears

--gabe

[David Coles]

Quick update on things... Apparently God's timing might be faster than I expected...  One of the things that He told me pretty clearly was that I should pray for a storefront on main street with living quarters above it, so that we could only have one building to worry about, at least for the first year or so... I didn't even mention it a few weeks ago, since it frankly seemed a bit over the top, even for God.

So I'm about two hours away from looking at a building on Main Street with apartments upstairs and a price tag of $25,000.

No idea yet what the inside looks like, but either God is bringing everything together or he's setting me up for a good laugh.   Pray if you guys would - all the information I have points towards this being perfect for our needs and goals...

Regardless, it would seem the joke's on me... God is good...

-Dave

Advanced search

• 1 Timothy 3:16 GOD was manifest in the flesh, or the Vatican versions "he"?: Translation Questions and Discussion byandiclare (3)
• Revelation 18:20 - Bible critics and "ye holy apostles and prophets": Translation Questions and Discussion bybrandplucked (0)
• What About the 2011 NIV Old Testament?: Translation Questions and Discussion bybrandplucked (0)
• 1 Samuel 6:19 Is your Bible the 100% historical truth of God? 50,070 or 70 slain: Translation Questions and Discussion bybrandplucked (3)
• What About the new NIV 2011?: Translation Questions and Discussion bybrandplucked (2)
• Answering the Typical Anti-KJB Only sites: Translation Questions and Discussion bybrandplucked (0)
• We are Gods?: Bible Discussion bySoffi (0)
• Every Man For Himself Bible Versions: Translation Questions and Discussion bybrandplucked (0)
• Answering James White's Question - Which KJV?: Translation Questions and Discussion byAndysDad (6)

• Japanese/English Bible?: Translation & Publishing—Resources, Questions & Interaction byGarlicMomma (5)
• Beka....?: Announcements & Updates byandiclare (0)
• HELP? Hubby can't sleep (I tried to search this): Healthcare @ Home byandiclare (1)
• Where is everyone?: Nothing Deep byGarlicMomma (5)
• Introduce Yourself!: Nothing Deep bypiperjameson (325)
• The scoop on Soap: House and Home byCherika Four Seasons (1)
• Ideas: Children serving each other: Parenting byjenibee (0)
• My husband needs help with something I think is wrong: Relationships byjackiee (4)
• like minded moms?: Parenting byHomeschool_Newbie (2)
• "Courtship" discussions/questions: Relationships byHomeschool_Newbie (15)
• Announcing....: Announcements & Updates byBJ_BOBBI_JO (5)
• 80 days dream: Announcements & Updates bybasething (16)
• strabismus: Healthcare @ Home byFree Woman (10)
• Prayer Requests -- Health Related: Healthcare @ Home byBJ_BOBBI_JO (640)
• Translations in Guatemala...: Translation & Publishing—Resources, Questions & Interaction byAndysDad (5)
• Boring christian life: Sarah's Daughters byBJ_BOBBI_JO (6)
• Is this site for real?: Relationships byandiclare (2)
• Emergency food: canned or powder?: Nothing Deep byGarlicMomma (9)
• A heart issue for my children?: Parenting byandiclare (9)
• Keeping Warm, Heating Tips & Tricks: House and Home byherbalmom (60)

[Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.Did you miss your activation email?]

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

February 07, 2012, 04:45:47 PM

1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Members

• Total Members: 6893
• Latest: ROxidRe4

Stats

• Total Posts: 243886
• Total Topics: 21906
• Online Today: 33
• Online Ever: 437
• (April 01, 2008, 03:09:36 PM)

Users Online

• Users: 0
• Guests: 22
• Total: 22