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[amy3js]

Ok Beka, I hope it's ok that I started this! I want to get the book you recommended, but I can't at the moment and curious minds have questions! Here are some of mine:

1. Do you need to can the veggies after they are fermented? I'm thinking no from the title of  the book.  (haha. Oh my, I really need to read better. I just found the answer to this- no canning! I guess that just makes me nervous?!)

2. I know you said the harder the veggie the better, what else can you ferment? Fruits? (E.TA.- I need to read better! You already mentioned fruits in your previous posts, So I guess that's a yes, lol. What fruits do you recommend? Harder, same as with veggies?)

3. I saw a short video somewhere once that barely touched on this topic (I think I saw the end of it) and the people put a piece of cabbage and a rock on top of the veggies in the jar. Do you do this? Is it necessary or do you know the reason?

4. How do you keep your jars under 55 degrees and not in the fridge? I'm thinking summer here...

5. Honestly, how do they taste? (I know you said delicious, but does it compare to anything familiar?)

6. Do you need whey? Are there ways to do it without the whey? What is it's role? (I'm not very familiar with this honestly. I've avoided recipes that call for it thus far 'cause I've never used it)

Ok, that's all my questions for now, I hope it's ok to throw them all at you!  Does anyone else do this?

[amy3js]

Just for reference, I started this thread in response to these posts from the food storage calculator thread.

I need to start a thread called "Lacto-fermenting is SO easy, I wish everyone knew..."

I think I was turned off by the Nourishing Traditions dogmatic approach and never looked into lacto-fermenting for myself, assuming it must be difficult or nasty. NOT SO!!! It is so easy, and so delicious... I can't get over it.

There is a great book called Preserving Food without Canning or Freezing by The Gardeners and Farmers of Terre Vivante. I love it. This is a great way to keep "fresh" veggies in your diet even if there comes a time when you can't garden at all. Naturally fermented foods are still enzyme rich. They never go through the intense heat process that destroys so many nutrients (canning.)  And they taste really great.

For instance, the produce manager at one of the grocery stores in town gives me his old produce a couple times a week. Much of this stuff just got knocked off the display and bruised, or expires the day he pulls it off the shelf.

Today I packed a bunch of cauliflower, red peppers, purple onion, snap peas into jars, added a spoon of salt, a spoonful of whey, and topped it off with water. Then I simply screwed on a lid and put it in storage. These veggies will be "fermented" in about 3 days. If I keep them at a moderately low temperature (below 55 degrees preferably) they will last for years without getting sharp tasting. I can drain them and saute them in oil, or eat them cold and  crunchy.

Another plus: Fermented veggies work better than a probiotic at healing the gut or protecting you from stomach flu, as they make it all the way through your whole intestinal system with the good bacteria. We've tested and compared our fermented crunchy turnips to Tummy Tuneup repeatedly in the last couple months!

Definitely consider lacto-fermenting veggies and fruits... even if you just put away a couple jars each week... they will add up and soon you'll have a storage of truly valuable food.

Beka

Beka,

Thank you so much for those tips on lacto-fermenting.  I've tried it a couple times, and I think Nourishing Traditions scared me too.  The book makes it sound so complicated and really easy to mess up.  I've always been scared of eating food that's gone bad with it!  I ended up with a pretty nasty batch of sauerkraut one time that I've never fully lived down with the rest of the family...

Jesi

Jessi,
One of the most important things to know when lacto-fermenting is DON'T USE IODIZED SALT. It prevents the fermentation process from occurring. This little fact is not front and center enough in most fermenting recipes. I had some sauerkraut turn out pretty scary too before I clued in on the iodine fact.

The second most important thing to know is to MAKE SURE YOUR LIQUID COVERS YOUR SOLIDS. If your veggies stick out above the water/whey mixture, they may mold and go bad on the top. Make sure you smash them down into the liquid, or put in enough water to cover them.

Other things that are important are to use good water with no fluoride or chlorine in it, make sure your veggies are clean-ish, but don't scrub them, especially if they are organic. Dirt is fine. For instance, your cabbage will ferment way better if you don't wash it.

The harder the veggies before fermenting, the firmer and crunchier your product will be. For instance, IMO, zuccini isn't so great fermented, but turnips and radishes are awesome. Cauliflower is better than broccoli, and pearl onions are better than sliced onions.  This is just personal experience and might be due to me not figuring it all out yet... Wink

You can also ferment things like salsa and spaghetti sauce, which I've heard are really tasty, but I haven't tried that yet. I am doing my first batch today.

Lastly, the lacto fermented smell is different from vinegar pickled stuff. It "grows" on you, but it's unfamiliarity may scare you at first. I've noticed that my kids were unsure of it at first and made comments like "it smells like vomit" the first time. Now, my daughter will stick her nose in the jar and take deep breaths because she "loves the smell." LOL. It's an enzyme-rich smell... a healthy-digesting-food smell. Just be brave enough to try it a few times along with foods that are rich - like red meats, or fish, or cheese and bread... you'll suddenly realize you crave it and always have.

[denim&lace]

6. Do you need whey? Are there ways to do it without the whey? What is it's role? (I'm not very familiar with this honestly. I've avoided recipes that call for it thus far 'cause I've never used it)

I would like to know the answer to this one too.  My kids are allergic to dairy, so whey is out... but so is yogurt and kefir and all those wonderful dairy products that provide pro-biotics.  So they REALLY need the pro-biotics from fermented foods without any type of dairy in it.

[herbfever]

6. Do you need whey? Are there ways to do it without the whey? What is it's role? (I'm not very familiar with this honestly. I've avoided recipes that call for it thus far 'cause I've never used it)

I would like to know the answer to this one too.  My kids are allergic to dairy, so whey is out... but so is yogurt and kefir and all those wonderful dairy products that provide pro-biotics.  So they REALLY need the pro-biotics from fermented foods without any type of dairy in it.

Hi,

 I have the book Rebekah recommended. It is great! I do not use whey in my ferments for the same reason. I only use all natural, non iodized sea salt. Real Salt is the brand I like. My favorite way to get probiotics. To help keep the crunch, I also add a grape leaf from my vines in my summer ferments.

[amy3js]

6. Do you need whey? Are there ways to do it without the whey? What is it's role? (I'm not very familiar with this honestly. I've avoided recipes that call for it thus far 'cause I've never used it)

I would like to know the answer to this one too.  My kids are allergic to dairy, so whey is out... but so is yogurt and kefir and all those wonderful dairy products that provide pro-biotics.  So they REALLY need the pro-biotics from fermented foods without any type of dairy in it.

Hi,

 I have the book Rebekah recommended. It is great! I do not use whey in my ferments for the same reason. I only use all natural, non iodized sea salt. Real Salt is the brand I like. My favorite way to get probiotics. To help keep the crunch, I also add a grape leaf from my vines in my summer ferments.

Thank you!  Do you know the reason for the whey? Since we do eat some dairy, I wouldn't mind learning about and using the whey possibly, but what is the reason for it? And is it any harder/different to do it without the whey? I'm glad to know its possible though! That means I can get started on it whenever I want and it's good for families like D&L.

So these are the ingredients I'm understanding so far;

hardish fruits or veggies
non-iodized salt
filtered water to cover veg or fruit
whey (optional)

Is this right?

[herbfever]

 Whey is used as a starter culture because it is full of the lactobacilli. It speeds things up and is nutritious if there isn't a casein/dairy allergy.

 I don't think it is harder without the whey. Like Rebekah said, fermenting is so easy!
Peppers, cucumbers, cabbage, beets, garlic are things I do.  I want to try nasturtium seedpod capers this summer.

Fruits are covered well in the Terre Vivante book. Preservation methods vary. Here is a preview Preserving Food

eta: I would love to hear what Rebekah is doing with fruits. I really just dry, make cordials or can in a honey syrup.

[amy3js]

Does the book cover fermenting without the whey? Or do they use it? Thanks for the link! I will check that out next.

So basically the whey is just a way that people can be sure they are starting out with the proper bacteria to correctly ferment? Without it you are trusting that the food will create it's own proper bacteria? Kinda like making your own sourdough starter and letting the starter get it's own yeast from the air?

This is so interesting to me! Thanks for answering all my many questions. 

[Gabriel Anast]

Thanks, Herb fever, for your comments... keep them coming! Beka will check this out in a while... but... fruit makes wine too. And most herbs can be made into wines. This is a way to make a tincture when you have no access to pre-distilled alcohol... and the taste is much better.

--gabe

[amy3js]

I'm lovin the little bit of that book I read from the link, thanks herb fever! It's top of my wish list now, lol.

And most herbs can be made into wines. This is a way to make a tincture when you have no access to pre-distilled alcohol... and the taste is much better.

--gabe

Great idea!

[herbfever]

 Ah, yes wine. I haven't delved that far. I did get a Making Wild Wine and Mead book. I need to research that further. I am especially interested in the wild yeast aspect of the wine/mead without the purchased starter yeast.
 I just remembered herbal or fruit sodas. It has been a while since I made one. I will have to get some ginger to get a "bug" going.

Fun thread.

[ForeverGirl]

Hi gals,
Man, sorry I disappeared for a while. LOL... I've actually been really busy preserving food!!!  Your comments are awesome, Herb Fever. I'm so glad you jumped in because I'm fairly new at this too. Amy, I'll try to answer your questions best I can, but remember I'M A BEGINNER TOO. 

Ok Beka, I hope it's ok that I started this! I want to get the book you recommended, but I can't at the moment and curious minds have questions! Here are some of mine:

1. Do you need to can the veggies after they are fermented? I'm thinking no from the title of  the book.  (haha. Oh my, I really need to read better. I just found the answer to this- no canning! I guess that just makes me nervous?!)

Nope, no canning needed, which is the beauty of this type of food preservation. You still have all the nutrition in your food, including enzymes which are so important for liver health.
I've noticed a lot of people are afraid of food going bad and them not being able to tell... in my experience this is just not possible. I've never heard of anyone dying or even being sick from poorly lacto-fermented foods - have you? I've had a few jars that didn't turn out right... instead they rotted or molded. This was due to 1) using iodized salt 2) not covering my veggies with liquid.

 In the first case, the rotten cabbage was SO obvious it was amazing. It was slimy, brown, and stunk horribly. In the second case, the veggies that were above the liquid molded, but the veggies under the liquid were fine. We removed the molded turnips, rinsed the rest in clean water, and put them back in a jar and covered them with new water and whey. They were fine to eat, and tasted/smelled fine. I had read that molded fermented products are fine once the mold is removed, and that even the mold won't kill you. Think of molded natural cheeses... same thing.

2. I know you said the harder the veggie the better, what else can you ferment? Fruits? (E.TA.- I need to read better! You already mentioned fruits in your previous posts, So I guess that's a yes, lol. What fruits do you recommend? Harder, same as with veggies?)

I don't have as much experience in this. The two things I've done so far are lemons and Kefir D'uva.  The lemons were a combination of salt and whey. I love the way they turned out. Great flavor and smell. They are too salty to make lemonade with, but I can use them as a fresh treat as they are, or in salad dressings, etc. The juice I made with pomegranite fruit/seeds, and some tart cherry juice. There are a couple of long threads on how to make Kefir D'uva on welltellme. The thing I haven't figured out yet is how long this will last. I want to bottle some of it and see how long it will last on the shelf. However, the next thing I'd like to try is making wine with my fruits. There is a great forum called herbwifery.org on which there are several good threads on wine making with herbs, fruits, even veggies.  I haven't done any of this yet, but would love to try it soon.

The book I recommended earlier "How to Preserve Food without Canning or Freezing" covers several ways to preserve food, including salt, lacto-fermenting, drying, cellaring, and sugar.  One of the fruit recipes I read in this book included preserving blueberries by letting some of them naturally ferment, and then adding that "mother" to the new batches, then covering each jar with a layer of raw honey before putting on a lid. If this works for blueberries, I believe it would work for other fruits that are organic and still have the "dust" of the natural bacteria on the outside of their skins, like grapes do. I can't wait to try it, but again - I haven't yet!

3. I saw a short video somewhere once that barely touched on this topic (I think I saw the end of it) and the people put a piece of cabbage and a rock on top of the veggies in the jar. Do you do this? Is it necessary or do you know the reason?

Some (all ?)  of the fermented foods need to off-gas to some degree, I think. I've read a few recipes that you make in a large crock that is just covered with cheesecloth and stirred occasionally. I assume that was the idea with the cabbage leaf and rock. Fermenting wine is similar in that you need a way for the gases to escape.

The veggies I've done so far, I just put a regular lid on them with the prescribed inch of space between veggies and lid, but occasionally I will take the lid off and smell them. The best brews always bubble and hiss like champagne when I take the lid off.  (Call me a "geek of natural brews", but that hiss and bubble just thrills me to the soul. )I don't think I would have to remove the lids... I just do it for the thrill sometimes. I believe the extra inch you are supposed to leave at the top of the jar is for the gasses to build up, so that your fermented foods don't overflow or break the jar.

4. How do you keep your jars under 55 degrees and not in the fridge? I'm thinking summer here...

In the past I had an extra fridge that I kept at 45-50 degrees for stuff like this, but now I am just putting them in boxes against the wall and praying constantly for the ability to dig a cellar soon. I haven't had anything go bad or be over-tart yet... kept at about 65 degrees average. Nothing is older than 3 months old though... we've been eating the oldest stuff first.
 

5. Honestly, how do they taste? (I know you said delicious, but does it compare to anything familiar?)

Well, have you ever eaten at a Mediterranean restaurant? They often serve fermented veggies as appetizers before the meal. A little bowl of cauliflower, beets, pickles and olives is very common... This is the first place I had fermented veggies. They are pickled, but not vinegary. A grape wine tastes like grapes that are fermented. Fermented veggies are the same... It is the taste of the vegetable with that extra fizz and tartness of fermentation.

6. Do you need whey? Are there ways to do it without the whey? What is it's role? (I'm not very familiar with this honestly. I've avoided recipes that call for it thus far 'cause I've never used it)

No, you don't need whey, but if you ferment without it, you need to be more picky about the veggies you use... try to only use organic, unwashed veggies and fruit. Everything is grown with a natural bacteria or yeast on it that will help it ferment correctly. Now days a lot of our veggies come irradiated or washed at the very least.  I prefer to ferment with whey because of the extra probiotics and the flavor I get with the kefir whey. But, it is done often and easily without any whey at all.

The grape leaves for crispness are are great idea and quite effective I've heard. We just don't have access to any here, so I tend to use the firmer veggies. I've been drying most of my fruit so far. Apples and bananas.

We just opened the veggie medley I did last week: multi-colored peppers, cauliflower, carrots, radishes, snow peas. Fantastic!!! Wonderful flavor! Nothing but salt and few peppercorns for seasoning. Instead of whey, I used the left-over liquid from the turnips I fermented a few months back. This liquid started out with a tablespoon of whey in it.

Well, gotta go now. Hope that helps. I'm excited to see a fermentation group forming! LOL. 

love,
Beka

PS: There is a lady named "Bear Medicine" on the herbwifery.org forum who makes wines with only the yeast found in/on the fruit itself. Almost everyone I've ever read buys yeast... but I'd like to try the way she talks about.

[ForeverGirl]

Here's that thread on making herbal wines:

http://herbwifery.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=229&highlight=wine

[amy3js]

Thank you so much for the info! I will need to go over it more in-depth later. And check out that other thread!  Hopefully I will be reporting in on my first jar of fermented veggies soon!

[AndysJess]

True novice here!  Where do I find whey?  If I use whey, do I have to use organic veggies?  I'm staying at my in-laws for the next month during a transition to WV with hubby's job, so I'm limited in space.  I did ask though, and my MIL didn't mind if I tried a few things with this.  So, I'm going to be gathering ingredients over the next couple of days and trying this out.  Thanks for this amazing idea!  I hate canning and this seems a much easier, not to mention healthier process.

[herbfever]

I don't use a rock as my weight. I use a jelly jar filled with rocks that fits inside of my mason jar. I then cover with muslin and a rubber band.  If I am using my crock I use a small plate that fits inside with a bottle of water as a weight and covered with muslin. I have stored some of my ferments in our unfinished basement and they are holding up fine.

Beka, your veg medley sounds awesome!

[herbalmom]

The reason for the weight is to keep the food below the surface of the liquid. I remember reading somewhere that when you lacto-ferment in canning jars you can take ice cream sticks, boil them to sterilize & cross 2 of them catching the ends under the shoulders of the jar to hold the food down. Haven't tried it but it sounds like it would work. HTH Blessings ~herbalmom

[sohnnenstrahl]

To all who are concerned about whey being dairy, and thereby aggravating body systems sensitive to dairy, have you ever heard of making a fermented drink called (well, many things, but what we know it as is) Rejuvelac? The term I think comes from Ann Wigmore, the Wheatgrass Lady, but the process I believe comes from the Caucaucus (ugh, sp?) Mountains. Or maybe Lithuania? 

Anyway, it's something we make here, and it's supposed to have beneficial bacteria for the tummy and enzymes and B vitamins and vitamin C and who knows what else.

You take wheat or rye or barley (we like the taste of rye the best) seeds and soak them for maybe 12 hours. Okay, okay. Um, say, a couple of handfuls. Soak 'em in good water.

Strain off the water and sprout the seeds until they have 1/4 inch long tails. Very cute little things. The way we sprout them is by spreading them out in a screen-type colander, covering with a towel, putting a plate under it, and setting it atop a counter back in a corner. We rinse them twice a day until they are ready, usually a day and a half to three days. When you're ready to use the sprouts, DON'T rinse them that time. The sprout police will come, and ... 

You take the sprouts and put them into a glass jar, filling the jar 1/4 - 1/3 full with them. Then run good water into the jar up to an inch beneath the top.

Cover with something breathable like cheesecloth, and secure with a rubber band or yarn. Cover the sides with a towel to keep out the light. Place on counter back in a corner. In two or three days it should be fizzy and fresh, sometimes like champagne, sometimes like a fresh, lemony, zingy flavor/aroma. Strain, put sprouts in there again with new water, and repeat, having put your rejuvelac into the fridge (well, whatever you didn't drink). If it smells like swiss cheese, it won't hurt you, but it might not be as fun to drink.

We learned this from Ann Wigmore books and from Creative Health Institute people and their manual. There are different ways of doing it.

It's a drink you can make without having to go too far out of your WHEY. (I crack me up.)

Really, the opportunity to post an unoriginal pun was the impetus for coming up with a recipe I could post here. There. Full disclosure.

[denim&lace]

Thanks sohn... but my family is also gluten intolerant... no wheat, rye or barley either...   but once we get everybodies guts healed up I might have to try that.

[boysmama]

6. Do you need whey? Are there ways to do it without the whey? What is it's role? (I'm not very familiar with this honestly. I've avoided recipes that call for it thus far 'cause I've never used it)

For those of you who can't use dairy products I think a little bit of saurkraut juice would work the same. Raw cabbage comes with it's own lactobacilli colonies, so a bit of kraut "whey"  would probably be just as good of a starter as dairy whey.
Using the whey of kraut is a good way to help your body adapt to the good "bugs" in lacto fermented products. Stir a tsp full of raw kraut juice into a kid's sized portion of soup.
I thought this wiki article was interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauerkraut

And whoever said you crave it after you adapt to lacto fermented products is right! I grew up with saurkraut, but rarely fresh. We just did a big crock full and then canned it.
In the Baltics though we had "turcist" in the middle of the table for almost every main meal. Peppers mostly which tended to be a little soft, but once I got started on them the texture wasn't an issue.  I loved the little hot peppers with the dry salty cheese, and thick chewy breads. 

[seekingtruth]

Thanks sohn... but my family is also gluten intolerant... no wheat, rye or barley either...   but once we get everybodies guts healed up I might have to try that.

I would think that after sprouting the grain and then using just the liquid, that you shouldn't have any intolerance problems with it.  I would investigate it more and see.  It is supposed to be a very healing beverage.

[denim&lace]

Right now, with my daughter having so many problems, I'm not willing to chance even the most minute amount of dairy or gluten in her diet.  She may be celiac (the blood tests came back inconclusive) and she certainly has the most severe dairy allergy complete with hives...  So on those two items, I just can't chance it right now.

I currently have saurkraut fermenting in my closet.  I used a 1/2 tsp of our allergen free probiotic supplement as a 'starter'.  We'll see in 6-9 days how it turns out!

[herbfever]

Right now, with my daughter having so many problems, I'm not willing to chance even the most minute amount of dairy or gluten in her diet.  She may be celiac (the blood tests came back inconclusive) and she certainly has the most severe dairy allergy complete with hives...  So on those two items, I just can't chance it right now.

I currently have saurkraut fermenting in my closet.  I used a 1/2 tsp of our allergen free probiotic supplement as a 'starter'.  We'll see in 6-9 days how it turns out!

May I ask which probiotic you use denim & lace?

Please update on how your kraut turns out!

[denim&lace]

http://www.rockwellnutrition.com/HLC-Synbiotic-Intensive-7-packets-by-Pharmax-40Non-Returnable41_p_58.html

this is what I used for the kraut... so far it looks and smells right.  I can't wait till it's done!

[herbfever]

Thanks!

[denim&lace]

OK... this may sound crazy to ya'll but... how would one go about making yogurt from fresh breast milk?

Do you think that the probiotic I have in the link above would be a sufficient starter?  If not, what would you use that is dairy and gluten free?  Would the juice from my saurkraut be way too sour?  

My 2yo daughter is still having problems gaining weight and growing.  Finding ways to get enough fat into her has been challenging at best.  We've eliminated all the allergens we can pin down and she has improved a lot.  Her skin and eyes are clear and bright.  She's having healthy poops.  She just isn't growing or gaining.    So that's the purpose for this, for those who might be visiting.  

  

[boysmama]

# Lactobacillus acidophilus (CUL 60)
# Lactobacillus acidophilus (CUL 21)
# Bifidobacterium bifidum (CUL 20)
# Bifidobacterium lactis (CUL 34)

These 4 in your probiotic are common in dairy culturing so I have used them frequently. They will multiply  best between 98*-106*F. They do not cause much thickening; you'll probably end up with a thinner "drinking" yogurt. I do think that this is sufficient for health benefits. The other two types of culture that are most common in yogurt have mixed reviews for those with serious health issues. Some doctors prefer their patients to avoid them, and other recommend them! 

I'm not sure where to go for dairy free cultures. I'll see what my supplier has to say.

I use fresh raw goat milk for yogurt. Most recipes will tell you to scald the milk first. I just put the warm milk- about 90-95* by the time I get it to the house- into a sterile jar. Add culture, stir, put into a insulated cooler and fill to neck of jar with  120* water. Cover and let stand 8-12 hrs. The 120* temp water buffer's the ambient temp of the cooler and might raise the milk temp slightly, but still below 110* My cooler will drop to about 95* in 12 hrs. which means that most of the time it is within optimum temperature range.
 We've come to like a thinner yogurt and the simplicity of only culture and milk.  Adding starches is the common way to get the typical yogurt thickness, although cow's milk will get much thicker on it's own. I do use a broader spectrum culture occasionally and culture  it for 24 hrs. The other cultures work better at lower temps, so the first ones multiply and then the second set-each in there preferred range.

Hope that helps! An excellent idea if you can handle it. Hope your girlie starts growing soon. 

[denim&lace]

Thanks boysmama!  That is very helpful!

[sohnnenstrahl]

D&L, okay, so what about this for another idea. I was taught how to make kimchi and kraut with just vegetables and water (but not for kimchi) and salt. What if you were to ferment cabbage without any outside "help," and then, after it's fermented, besides enjoying it, taking some of the liquid to use as a starter if you want to try a starter that will be non-reactive in your family.

For the kimchi, we take napa (or substitute any) cabbage, just a tiny bit of carrots, a small amount of hot peppers (if you like them), and about an inch x 1/2 inch of fresh ginger, with a little salt. We shred all the vegetables, then pound them with a meat hammer in a mixing bowl. Then we put it all in the jar, try to get the air bubbles out, and smash the veggies down beneath the surface of the juices that came out in the pounding. Make sure you get the salt in there, mixed up, and cover. We open it once a day if I remember, because I am afraid of it blowing.

Also, what about using raw apple cider vinegar, unfiltered, too? It's the kind with the "mother" in it that you can see, like a slimy, brown, stringy glob. Right now on our counter I have a few quarts and pints of veggies going, and I just chopped them into 1/2" or so cubes, put a teaspoon of non-iodized salt on them with a tablespoon of the raw, unfiltered vinegar, and filled them with water, covering the veggies. This was for the quarts. For the pints I used 1/2 the salt and vinegar.

As for the fat, I'm sorry if I missed something you already said, but do you have access to wild salmon? My husband was just saying that it's a good source of dietary fat. Also, what about nuts and seeds being ground and stirred into a smoothie, or spread for a nut butter? You can culture those, by the way. For instance, you can make almond milk in the blender with almonds and water, then strain to drink the almond milk, and hang the glob in a cloth over a bowl for a few days. Ack. I think that might need a starter. You could try it with the kraut fermented juice...

[denim&lace]

The saurkraut turned out great!  Mo and I are both eating three or four bites of it before every meal and last thing in the evening before bed.

I still haven't gotten around to making the yogurt.  I'm having a hard time finding time to pump milk for it.

sohn - We do eat salmon once or twice a week.  It's good and Mo loves it, but with so many allergies floating around, I don't want to feed it to her too often and bring on another allergy.  KWIM?

As for the awesome nut milk idea... we can't have nuts.  All tree products like nuts, woody herbs, tree roots and bark, even maple & birch syrup and stevia... they all cause reactions in our family.     I really miss pecans.  We DO eat quite a bit of sunbutter and sunflower seeds.  I think pumpkin seeds would be OK.  We can't do sesame seeds, but surely there are some other kinds of seeds out there that we could use... I'll just have to find out what they are.

So now I'm excited to try fermenting some kimchi and maybe some fermented  pickles.  Mmmm, I wonder how okra would ferment.  I really like pickled okra.   

[herbalmom]

I think pumpkin seeds would be OK. 

Since you can eat squash, pumpkin seeds should be fine & they can be made into a 'milk'. Hang in there, eventually your guts will heal & your allowed foods will increase.

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