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[In Christ]

Okay, so I spent some time with the LORD and that has made a big difference, but with dh home ALL the time now (for 6 months already) getting away from him and with Jesus has been a LUXURY.

So, I was listening to him talk to ds (12) Sat morning and as he ALWAYS seems to be doing, he was cutting him down on everything the poor kid said. 

After 15 years of constant nagging, criticizing, mean, hateful, rude, threats over the stupidest petty things, and been cut down and having my kids both be cut down over and over AND worse....

To see them, esp. 12 yo ds, picking up bad habits of criticizing, arguing, exaggerating, etc. etc. etc....that's the WORSE part.

So, HELP....

I've read Created and I need to get my audio back (reading been difficult between vision issues and dh always around).

I was so snapping the other day, I was about to lost my mind, I kept hearing the "joke" over and over and over that many Christians/pastors say, "Divorce is not an option, but Murder...." 

That's terrible to say, but I just didn't know what to do, I thought, if I checked out, then my kids would ONLY have his horrible influence....so I felt like I couldn't do anything, I was on the floor praying and praying and everytime I'd hear some lame stupid hateful remark, I'd just get closer to snapping....

He's such a bully and he's ALWAYS right and NO ONE can ever approach him about ANYTHING because he won't hear or listen to anything or anyone....

I'm listening right now to him and it's never ending....everything we do is WRONG, we are the cause of every problem in the world...he forgets (accident or on purpose? I don't know) conversations and plans and it's just like my heart is about to EXPLODE with pain, frustration, anger, etc.....

So, what do you do to keep from Snapping?   

I can't kill myself or him, I can't do anything that helps or works, I've tried everything, I've obsessed over I Pet. 2-3 and other Scriptures, I've taken the blame for everything, I just don't know anymore, so I don't know how to deal with him...I'm praying (not in my closet or alone much) all through every day trying to deal with it, but how much can one take and how much can one watch their children take?

I used to be the sweetest happiest, cheerful, most light-hearted person and now I'm losing my mind. My friends keep noticing that "you are changing, you're not happy, you seem so sad, etc.  I've tried gentle, quiet, loving (in EVERY situation), I've been a doormat, I've tried light-hearted joking and teasing, I've kept my mouth shut for 15 years, with two exceptions, once in 1997 and once in 2005 I VERY nicely quietly tried to say something, and he LOST it and both times it became a HUGE ordeal, otherwise we never fight, I just keep my mouth shut, cuz you pay (not with physical abuse) if you sound or look like you disagree with anything he says or does    And often just our existing seems to ruin his life. 

HELP ?   

Thanks for any prayers....

[AndysJess]

There are so many people on this board with more wisdom than I, but know that I'm praying for you, your husband and your situation. 

[Monita]

Im Christ,

I will pray for you and your situation.  When I begin to feel hurt by Dh the temptation I have is to focus on those feelings and emotions even those of my children, but I try to  train myself to lift up my Dh in prayer in those times and turn away from my hurt, asking God to change my perspective(hurt feelings) if needed.  I pour out my heart in prayer for every aspect of DH's life; his thoughts, speech, choices, his work, health, leading his family, for his heart to turn to his children, for him to be a man of integrity and Godly character.  Maybe try fasting and praying in this way for your Dh see what happens.  
 I know it is hard though so I will pray for someone to offer you some wisdom here.   Praying.

[rainygladness]

InChrist, I don't have anything profound to tell you.  Just keep peeling back the layers of your heart before God until you feel his absolute Peace.
We are all in training for something of much greater value to God than we can imagine and the trials we go through are purifying us. 

My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.  But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.- James 1:3

You cannot change your husband's ugly behavior, that's a fact.  But you can influence it, whether he shows a response or not, you are an influence. 
Maybe instead of 'trying everything' in response to your husband's temperment, be consistent .  I believe he might be looking for just that: consistency.  It sounds like his behavior is pretty consistent.    He's practiced it until it has become habit.  Sometimes troubled souls will push and push others to see what they're really made of.  Maybe he's trying to find out if you WILL snap.  He may have never met a stable soul in his life and he might not believe it's possible for someone to show Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance in the face of hatred.  Pray that the LORD will infuse you consistently with the fruits of the Spirit.  Let God take care of the rest.

God gave you this man and your job is to be his helper. I know you *know* this.     But sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees and each day seems like a rerun of the one before.  But it's not!  Each morning is a brand new chance for you to love God by loving this hard-to-love man.  Pray that his heart would respond to your warm sunshine like butter and not clay.  Clay hardens in warmth, but butter melts.   
 
Phil 4
Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand. Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.  And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
(emphasis mine)

[denim&lace]

InChrist... I am sorry.  I know your hurt.  I've been there. 

You are right.  In your situation, there is nothing more you can do.  You can't respond to your husband in any way that will be profitable.  But you can respond to Jesus and reap big, big rewards. 

I love 1 Peter 2:21-23.  That scripture has  got me through so much.  I use to focus on 1 Peter 3... and tried to live it and be it so hard.  But when push came to shove, I had to take my focus off of me... the wife... and I had to put my focus on Jesus... the Saviour.  What He suffered for me.  Then I had to reconcile in myself that I wasn't being spit on FOR my husband.  I was being spit on FOR Jesus.  My husband was receiving the love from me that I had for Jesus.  When I was too hurt, too angry, too exhausted from being hated to love my husband, I had to just love Jesus.  I rubbed my husbands feet as a response to what Jesus did for me.  I fixed my husbands lunch as if I were serving it to Jesus.  I kept the house clean as though Jesus would walk through the door at 5 o'clock.  When I couldn't love my husband, I loved Jesus.   

You can't go wrong loving Jesus.





 

[Siege]

Oh honey...I have been there many times. One thing that has helped me is to remember that I answer to God MY behavior, not my husband's. Even if you never see the rewards to your meek and quiet spirit, there is a reward.

As to the worry about your children; let that worry go. God is bigger than ANY bad habit our children pick up. Even when you think it is too late, its not too late for God. Show your children Gid's love and grace, but don't overcompensate for the negativness of your husband. They WILL see Christ through you. They may not realize it now, but one day they will. I will be praying for you. CJ

[In Christ]

We are all still making it here  

The anger has subsided...I'm just so tired now. 

Thank you for praying and for your words of wisdom. 

Just trying to trust the LORD to change me to be a much better person and just accept how we are treated...

I did want everyone to know, I am not a crying, whining, nagging, complaining, self-righteous wife....I really have tried hard for 15 years to be quiet and submissive, just recently (at a dear friends reminder that he "used to like it" I started being a little more playful and teasing and coming back with little pokes and such, he does seem to like it, but it really hasn't changed his behavior any and it really feels weird to "come back" even playfully     

Anyway, love the article about first being CHEERFUL in this months NGJ...I want to be that person again, I don't know how not to be changed by him though      I don't know how NOT to give up and just crawl under a rock and die.  I don't know anything at all really....it's hard to think when you are stupid and everything you do is wrong....but is it wrong to just hope and pray my children will be safe and grow up loving and serving JESUS regardless of what they experience here at home?   I don't understand why GOD doesn't change me and make me a better wife and mother either....it's so frustrating.

Thanks for praying, again, I'm EXHAUSTED today, I was up from 1am - 7am reading The Vision and crying forever and praying for my family. 
I found myself trying to pray GOD would do whatever for my husband to be saved, then I thought what if it meant taking one of the children...I was horrified and cried for the longest time....prayed for other things too...just so tired of me not being able to do anything worthwhile or helpful or right...I need sleep apparently...

Thank you again for your LOVE and prayers, sooooo much!

[andiclare]

I will pray for you and your situation.  When I begin to feel hurt by Dh the temptation I have is to focus on those feelings and emotions even those of my children, but I try to  train myself to lift up my Dh in prayer in those times and turn away from my hurt, asking God to change my perspective(hurt feelings) if needed.  I pour out my heart in prayer for every aspect of DH's life; his thoughts, speech, choices, his work, health, leading his family, for his heart to turn to his children, for him to be a man of integrity and Godly character.  Maybe try fasting and praying in this way for your Dh see what happens.  
 I know it is hard though so I will pray for someone to offer you some wisdom here.   Praying.

Off-topic of the OP....but I just wanted to say that this post was a good teaching and reminder for me. Thank you. 

[Free Woman]

I have been lurking on this list a long time, nervous about it being a public place.  But this post has made me thankful.  I have been complaining because my husband can become irritable like this but not to this extreme.  I will pray for you.  I'm learning that I have to do things to please God.  Just remember, in eternity, you won't have to suffer that anymore.  There  is more than this.

I'll write more later.  Thanks for this forum, it has really helped me.

[In Christ]

I think I'm doing better...I don't know what's going on, I am getting suspicious actually....like wondering if he's read something, it seems like for a few days he's actually held his tongue and it's seemed like he's actually caught himself and "fixed" whatever he was about to or started to say...it's really weird...

AND he's been encouraging ds...it's like a breath of fresh air and I'm giving GOD all the praise for it because HE has to be behind this MIRACLE, of either me not hearing or him not speaking it, whatever happened, it's a GOD-thing and I think your prayers have helped because I'm not sure what I've been praying....I was so overwhelmed, so 'dead', so  numb, so defeated, I couldn't function mentally too well....

So, THANK YOU for praying!   It's amazing how a day or two break can make such a HUGE difference.....

GOD BLESS ALL of you.  More later.

[RunAmokFarm]

Something you wrote caught my eye "I started being a little more playful and teasing and coming back with little pokes and such, he does seem to like it, but it really hasn't changed his behavior any and it really feels weird to "come back" even playfully".

While my husband wants/needs respect, he also despises "meek".  For awhile, I tried being quiet and submissive - jumping to attention and racing to his every beck and call, thinking this was "Godly".  I tried to put on a soft, feminine smile, even when he made me angry.  Frankly, it annoyed him, deeply.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do try very hard to be obedient and submissive - and my husband does make nearly all the big decisions in our home... however, "submissive" does NOT mean I won't stomp my foot, throw my hands in the air and "scold" him if he comes across as too grouchy, critical, or demanding.  (This is known as a "riggin' fit", and requires anyone wearing a hard-hat to throw it down and stomp on it!  My husband used to be a logger, so this is where the term originated... )

If he is grouchy and "tells" me to do something, I will respond with a "humph!", toss my hair, and say something sassy... like "Uh... Who's gonna make me?"  (Then I make a production of quickly placing myself physically on the opposite side of a large piece of furniture, so's I have adequate room to run!   )  He can be in a pretty sour mood, but nearly always snaps out of it when offered the prospect of chasing me round the kitchen table.  I usually taunt him once or twice more, just to get him riled up good, then as he begins the chase, I squeak out escalating pleas of "help me" to the kids.  (This typically ends "poorly" for me as he corners me and snaps me on the bum with a kitchen towel, or holds me down, whisker-burning my neck.  I, of course, squeal and laugh hysterically during the onslaught.)   

Obviously, every husband-wife relationship is different.  Some husbands really like their wife to be a bit of a "spitfire" - one that offers a challenge every now and again (can you say "conquest"??), others truly do want a meek, quiet, sweet wife.  What works for one man will not work for another... but since your husband responds well when you offer a little "comeback"  it could very well be that your husband would actually appreciate seeing a little spark in your eyes - perhaps a wee bit of a spunky challenge, done with a sly grin...
 
Depending upon his personality, this might be a good time for a bit of a playful response, especially with the recent changes in his behavior... why, you could even "make eyes at him", surprise him with a little "frisky" wink and a slightly concealed "come-hither" look... 

If this is not your normal response to him, don't be surprised if he is a little surprised at first... but a little coy behavior over the course of a week or so can get a fella's attention.   

Anyway, just some thoughts ~
J

[rainygladness]

AND he's been encouraging ds...it's like a breath of fresh air and I'm giving GOD all the praise for it because HE has to be behind this MIRACLE, of either me not hearing or him not speaking it, whatever happened, it's a GOD-thing and I think your prayers have helped because I'm not sure what I've been praying....I was so overwhelmed, so 'dead', so  numb, so defeated, I couldn't function mentally too well....

So, THANK YOU for praying!   It's amazing how a day or two break can make such a HUGE difference.....

GOD BLESS ALL of you.  More later.

Wow, PRAISE GOD, InChrist!!!    I'll continue to pray for restoration and healing in your marriage . 

[provided4]

Well I could certainly go on for about 6 hours on THIS topic...but when my dh has an outburst I have come to realize it is usually due to an assault on his pride. Who, and how, and in what context his pride was assaulted can vary. But the outcome is always the same and shocking and hurtful. Especially when you are tempted to stand in front of your children and " protect them" from his outbursts. I have felt anger burn inside me truly to the point of bursting when he does this. But I wonder if the source of MY anger is pride as well, in a different way. The only response in those heated moments is detachment and quietness and meekness before him ( your dh). I'm not saying its easy or even possible sometimes. But stepping back and away and letting God and the Holy Spirit intervene is the only thing that will diffuse and heal the situation.  I have had moments where I put my self in the bathroom, closed the door, and prayed for The Lord to cause me a heart attack right there and then to deliver me and perhaps shock my dh into some sort of state of remorse. Then I think of my children. When dh has an outburst who are they looking at? Who are they afraid of? What is the gauge they are using to judge the situation? My face. My actions. My demeanor. If I am calm and unruffled and still able to smile at THEM it is ok and all will be well. And it WILL all be well if I step back and give the control back to The Lord. If I am humbly and sincerely trying my best to do " what is required of me" ( Micah 6.8 ) then the Lord will see us all through the situation. The ladies on this forum will steer you to the only thing that will help: keeping your eyes on The Lord. He is in every situation , always, WITH you and FOR you . And He loves your explosive, perhaps wandering dh, just as much as He does you and your children.

[RunAmokFarm]

Hi everyone...

Obviously, marriage is an area we should all be standing in prayer for each other.  I think the most important aspect of marriage, for a man, (certainly one of the most important aspects) is simple respect.  Not a "respect face", but true respect for his position.

Certainly, men can react in a variety of ways when they deem their position trampled... but sometimes they are justifiably angry.  It is not "cool" to be constantly undermined at work, or home.  Most workplaces are full of others trying to get ahead, so they expect the backstabbing or manipulation from at least some of their co-workers... but at home?

A man's heart is supposed to be able to safely trust in his wife - Knowing she will only do "good" to him all the years of her life... yet, in spite of the smile he sees, he can so easily sense her discontent... and her loathing.  Often, men do not know how to react to these situations, except in anger. 

Again, we have to realize there is a definite difference between our "respect face", and true respect for their position.  They know when we inwardly believe they are merely childish, prideful men.  They know when we detest them.  Worse, so do the children. 

I don't know if I can put into words what I am thinking here, but I am going to try.  In my honest opinion, when there IS an angry situation with our husband, we should be especially careful NOT to turn that "smile" to the children.  That, again in my opinion, is a selfish plea for the children to gravitate toward the "enduring", "abused" momma... they will NEVER learn respect for their father when they see their momma as the poor, weak vessel - only barely enduring for their sake.  In truth, they will grow, quickly to despise, then hate their father.  If we are truly working to win our husbands, this will, I believe, have the opposite effect.

Now, that doesn't mean that we are not to respond with kindness, and sweetness - that doesn't mean we are not to be peacemakers in our home... but we need to turn that sweetness toward our husbands.  Sometimes we can see a storm brewing, and with a few quick changes, his favorite dinner, and some happy smiles, we can change the course of the evening.  That is good... as long as we are not doing it for the wrong reasons, as in "manipulation" to get our "job" done with and shuttle him outside the family activities.  KWIM?

So, I don't know if that explains my thoughts clearly this morning...?  Let's remember to pray for each other throughout the days ahead, as each family will be going through their own struggles and trials.
J   

NOTE:  There is a difference between real, heavy-handed physical abuse (honest, true, unquestionable abuse) and a husband who blows up and is angry.  In the case of true abuse, then our role is different, and we need to get real help - and that has, I believe, been discussed elsewhere.

[In Christ]

So, for some reason I was thinking that I sound like a whiny brat, if so I'm sorry....I just don't know what really is left to do....

I was thinking about how this has always been "norm" and I sure didn't "keep my eyes wide open BEFORE"  and I go back and forth with thinking, okay, he's better, or whatever....I don't know....but I was thinking of some examples of what really bothers me....WORDS!

When my child was 4 years old, dh's sister and her family came to visit us, we then went to site see and take them some places, well middle of summer in the deep south, ha...it's like HOT out...we had to stand in line for like an hour or two with their kids, not too well behaved, and mine, 4 yo...well they decided to get their kids ice cream, so they decided to get mine some too...well, ice cream melts in 100 degee weather, so dh is snapping 4 yo head off for ice cream melting and running down arms (regardless of how bad his family's kids were acting) and then biting my head off because she was making a mess and getting sticky, in front of his family AND 500 others, it was his BIL that bought it.

My grandmother, whom I was SOOOOO close to died....we had just been to the beach that summer and had stopped by her house on the way, she only lived about 45 min from beach...so that was a blessing, and we were at beach because that is where DH likes to vacation, NOT because I like it or wanted to see my grandmother....this was only the 2nd or 3rd time I had really seen her since being with him because he doesn't want to visit my family (or his too much)...anyway, my grandmother died, I was so heartbroken, so upset, but tried not to cry around him, it makes him ill, but I sat down on the floor and he asked What my problem was, cuz I was quiet and prob had red eyes, I told him Grandma died, and his exact words were..."Well, at least that's one less person I have to go visit now!"   This is normal for him, not when he's mad, not when he's stressed, this is him!

These are more harsh examples of what happens pretty normally....the nasty comments in front of his family (and mine to which I have to defend him to my mom because she gets MAD, and I explain away his behavior so she will still love and respect him).  Comments about my weight in front of his family, or my past life in front of them and even my little dd....

He does NOT believe in sympathy, PERIOD.  He does not have compassion for the three of us in this house, but on occassion will for someone he knows from work, family, or his friend.  SERIOUS, I PROMISE I am NOT exaggerating.....so, what can make a person be like this....he's been this way for the 15 years I've know him, NOT when he's upset, mad or stressed, though it could get worse at times...it's usually so subtle....so WHAT? 

It's not "abusive" though I'd MUCH rather be punched in the face than hear hateful and negative words.  The kids love, adore him, which I've ALWAYS tried to make sure of because isn't that part of my job....the whole Bring him good....granted, I guess talking on here in this place isn't bringing him good, but I don't know what else to do, none of you know me or him, but people here in this town do, so I don't even want to talk to my pastors anymore because I thought what if he ever decided to go to church, wouldn't it be horrible to have people in town and at the churches know negative stuff about him??

Anyway, he's been quieter these last few days, so again, maybe that's GOD making me not hear or something so I didn't snap....I guess HE doesnt' allow more than we can handle, right?

I also promise, you cannot, NEVER, ever, EVER, mention or talk about anything that might be wrong, EVER....I talk as good and nice as possible, but doesn't I try to be postive, encouraging, build him up (much more when he's around, yes!) and to the kids, but I cannot say anything in the right way, it's IMPOSSIBLE....

so, I didn't want you to think I was a nag, or hateful....I'm probably guilty of being tired, pitiful, or whatever some of you have mentioned....I try to be bouncy and postive and happy and cheerful....but again, it's like there is some INVISIBLE walls all over the house and everywhere that I run into and there is NO way to know where they are (what will be the wrong thing....)

But again, he doesn't hit any of us, doesn't normally curse at us, and doesn't normally come right out and blatantly say YOU ARE STUPID, but IMO he does because of his comments and comebacks on anything we say....

I have agreed with him many times, like, a few days later, saying something like, yeah, it would be nice to have a shelf up there..and I kid you not, he's like, that would look stupid or wouldn't work (he doesn't treat others GREAT either, but always MUCH better than the three of us.)

IF I say ANYTHING, very rare, like, maybe this would help, or it hurt me when you said that when Grandma died (when he said it) his answer is "well if I'm that bad, why are you still here."     I just shut up....or he'll say, if you are hurt then it's your own fault, you are the one LETTING it bother you when I say the things I say.....I'm serious....

Do I just say, "I'm here because I'm supposed to stay with you and love you and be here till I die!"   That sounds so mean and harsh and I might hurt his feelings, I always try to analyze my words before I saw them because I don't want to say hurtful things, so usually I stay quiet...

The cut downs and stuff don't seem to BREAK the kids hearts like it does mine, so I guess I can just hope that it's all in my head....I've read and tried to focus on GOD, doing things I learned in CTBHH or on here or even my famous I Peter 2 and 3....and I Cor. 13....but apparently I stink at that and as much as I want to be a good wife and mother, I always seeem to fall short, so then I think, well,  (pity-party time) if I was a better wife and mother, maybe he'd love me or even just like me.  Maybe this or maybe that....I'm NOT playing I"m NOT manipulating, just being transparent....I know this will pass soon, and I'll go back to normal and try to look at al those GOOD things about him, he doesn't drink, smoke, cheat, and he works (when he had work, he did for 32 years at one company, and he'll be glad to work again, so not lazy).  He laughs and plays at times...soooooooo 

I'm going to spend today trying to believe that it's all in my head and all the problems are my own and if GOD will just make me a better wife and mother, my children will be fine....I can make it through however many more years GOD chooses to leave me here. 

I'm been having little issues with my breathing, throat, lungs hurting, blood in nose and spitting up blood, I thougth to myself....I'm sorry GOD, I don't really want to die and leave my kids and hurt my lost family members....so, is that pride to think my family is better off with me HERE? ? ? ? ? ? ?   

And is there something wrong with me that I WANT to be convicted and corrected and TOLD when I'm wrong?   There was discussion in SS class yesterday about how we all hate to be....and pride....and I wanted to ask, What if you don't hate it but ASK for it and want to know.....ESP from GOD.  I want want want HIM to tell me what's wrong and how to fix it...ALL THE TIME!   Is that something HE'll answer?

Thank you again for sharing and praying....I know that it helps to vent to total strangers, but then I feel like a dirt bag again because I'm not always saying NICE things about him and I've asked someone besides GOD for advice and help....I worried this morning that GOD would be so mad at me for talking to somone besides HIM about all this....you think?

Thanks again....Love and prayers for peace and wisdom.

[In Christ]

So, I'm walking around the house saying over and over....Love is patient, Love is kind, it does not....it keeps no record of wrongs.....so, I'm just saying those six words over and over....may GOD help me do just that, cuz I've tried and I think I've forgiven, but I hate that I have NOT forgotten arg!

Then I'm hearing my children laughing and playing and telling myself, I have SO MUCH to be Thankful for!!!!!!!

I also have how many times do I forgive, 490 EVERY day, well, even my dh couldn't use all those up, haha....

Anyway, whoever just prayed, THANK YOU!

I still feel so tired, dead, and defeated, but surely quoting Scripture is good and will help me to live through yet another day....he's finding ways to be busy and out of the house the last week almost every day too, so that will help too, right?  6 months out of work is a long time of being together 3 and 4 days in a row all day long....I really wonder if that isn't one reason GOD clearly gave me this job right after he lost his...started out two days, now it's three, and now he's been busy looking for work too, plus he and ds going fishing and stuff...so much to be thankful for, we could be totally together EVERY day, all day....I'd shoot myself for sure then....so GOD knows I'm weak and can't handle that, you think?

Love and prayers

[freshisbest]

I don't know if I can put into words what I am thinking here, but I am going to try.  In my honest opinion, when there IS an angry situation with our husband, we should be especially careful NOT to turn that "smile" to the children.  That, again in my opinion, is a selfish plea for the children to gravitate toward the "enduring", "abused" momma...

We aren't talking about a wife who is baiting her children to " side" with her against her angry and unhappy husband. There is a point where a wife must carry on with HER joy whether or not her husband has lost his. I am not talking at all about a marriage that is on the whole happy and satisfying and occasionally there is a day or week that the husband gets angry. For those wives who have husbands who are backslidden, have chronic depression and anger and hopelessness, have turned away from god and the very presence of their christian wives irritate them...to those wives I say there comes a time when all your encouraging him, trying to change him, trying trying trying to " make things better" for him or around him will just exhaust and defeat you. You can minister to your husband in meekness and without words when words only irritate him. You can " smile" and have a content countenance , a security that despite his outward behavior you know Christ is IN him and working things out for the better of both of you and your family. And I do not think it is ever wrong to smile when your heart is troubled. A reassuring smile to a child to let him know that it is not his fault someone else is angry or upset? How can that be wrong?When my kids were little I was standing at the bus stop waiting for them....I was thinking so hard about , well, life I guess. All burdened and bogged down by things I had to do or things that were happening...didn't realize what I must have looked like until the kids got off the bus and said " are you mad Mom? You look really serious!" To which I laughed and said " oh my! I was just thinking so hard about something! How was your day? Whats for snack?" I realized then how important it is to look how I WANT to feel sometimes instead of how I AM feeling. Including when dh comes through the door at night. What does he see? A tense, tight, frowning face because of all I had to deal with all day?

When a man has verbally assaulted you, and you are hurt, and you have some thoughts about him that are from the flesh....that is the time to turn your thoughts to The Lord....immediately......you have to disregard what comes out of their mouth and trust that what The Lord sees in their heart is NOT at all what just came out.
The mouth will speak out of the abundance of the heart and it is hard for a wife to think her husband really truly harbors those thoughts he just spoke! You have to believe he DOESN'T...you have to believe the best and have hope that The Lord will his choice of words ( eventually.) We can only change ourselves and we have to leave the changing of our husbands up to The Lord. We tend to jump through hoops trying to " fix things" .. that is in our nature .. but you have to know when to step back too.
Every day you need to make your list of things you are thankful for...look for " God Winks" when He will let you know that He is there, that He sees, and that He is still in charge.

[RunAmokFarm]

Dear Freshisbest,

I am a little confused, as you quoted me above, then followed with "I wasn't talking about a wife who is baiting her children to " side" with her against her angry and unhappy husband." ...  Just in case there was a misunderstanding, I want to clarify my above quote was not written in personal response to anything you had written...

In my above post, I also was not referring to a "marriage that is on the whole happy and satisfying and occasionally there is a day or week that the husband gets angry" - so we are likely on the same track, at least to some degree.  The truth is that many women here have lived, long-term, difficult, even truly abused lives - whether with their own fathers, stepfathers, guardians, or with an uncaring spouse.  I absolutely agree that we are not supposed to lose our joy - and that a well-timed smile to our husband is vitally important.  A smile can minister where words cannot...

My quote above was not made in general regarding losing our joy, but regarding a specific scenario I have witnessed being played out repeatedly in difficult homes.  *In honesty, I have been guilty of the very same, manipulative move, on several levels...  I mentioned it, specifically, because I absolutely believe the manipulation of circumstances comes naturally to most women, as a way to "win" when we feel we are losing.  It can be on such a base level as to not even come, consciously, to mind.

Even in a solid, happy marriage, I think it is natural, as mothers, to wish for our children to cling to us...  In short, it is "nice" to be "needed".  This, however, becomes an even deeper desire when faced, daily, with a verbally abusive, critical, spouse, or in a marriage where we do not feel cherished or loved. 

In the case of a critical spouse, one that "tears the children down", what better way to "win" our childrens' affection, then to give them an "on the sly" comforting, knowing, sympathic smile... after all, "we" are in the same boat, captained by a horrible, mean-spirited tyrant!  We don't feel that spouse's love or affection, but we can darn sure have those kids dote on their wonderful, sweet, enduring momma... KWIM?  It is "nice" to have someone's sympathy... 

All I am saying is that there is, easily, in this type of circumstance, an almost hourly opportunity to do the right ACTION (sweet, gentle smile - or enduring, meek spirit), but with a wrong motive.  Hope that clarify's what I was trying to express earlier.
J

[rainygladness]

You can " smile" and have a content countenance , a security that despite his outward behavior you know Christ is IN him and working things out for the better of both of you and your family.

When I was young, my mom said our dad was just backslidden and I and my sibs accepted that as the truth.  But in our late teens, we questioned why "saved" people didn't have to act any different than "unsaved" people. 

Not until I grew up, got truly saved and studied the word for myself did I finally see what God says on the matter by simply by reading scripture: that we will know believers "by their fruit" and that words come from the treasure of the heart.   

chronic depression and anger and hopelessness, have turned away from god and the very presence of their christian wives irritate them...

These traits totally contradict someone with Christ IN them.  As for kids (I know for me anyway) telling them that their dad is saved while they can plainly see that his actions show otherwise, can damage a their grasp of saving faith later on.   

I just wanted to mention this because it was my experience and I so wish that my mom had known the truth from scripture and told us clearly.  We would have had much more solid ground to go from there.  Anyway, I hope it's ok that I mention my perspective on that. 

[freshisbest]

You can " smile" and have a content countenance , a security that despite his outward behavior you know Christ is IN him and working things out for the better of both of you and your family.

 

chronic depression and anger and hopelessness, have turned away from god and the very presence of their christian wives irritate them...

These traits totally contradict someone with Christ IN them.  As for kids (I know for me anyway) telling them that their dad is saved while they can plainly see that his actions show otherwise, can damage a their grasp of saving faith later on.   

 Exactly the question I have asked previously on this forum....and many times to other christians...if the traits contradict someone who is IN christ...but they claim to be saved...how do you deal with this person?  They are setting a poor example for the children, we know that, it upsets the wife, but they are powerless to CHANGE the husband and the situation. All the wife can DO is continue on in meekness and with whatever joy she can find for herself and hope their children find out for themselves the truth
( about  others behavior) when they get older. Very often its the children that keep this wife together and her only hope is that they grow up and get out of the house and end up NOT like their father. It is not for a wife  to tell  children " your father THINKS he is saved but we know otherwise, don't we?"  Is it??  She is told not to appear or sound bitter or resentful either...in front of the kids...but when you live with someone in difficult circumstances like that....its just not so easy to counsel these women from the perspective of a happy, Christ-filled, Christ-honoring marriage. Honor him, but be truthful about saying he  is not IN Christ? How does one do that?

That husband whose actions/words contradict someone with Christ IN him believes he IS in Christ, knows he is " saved", and no one can tell him otherwise. He will often ( most likely) blame someone else for what is happening to him/his family. When he is negative and expresses hopelessness you can try to be encouraging and hopeFUL but he will end up resenting that, and tell you not to tell HIM what the bible says because he knows better than anyone ( even though he hasn't picked his up in years.) This poor wife is caught right in the middle of a crossfire. All she can do is turn to The Lord herself and hope and believe that her  actions will win him over, or at least not make the situation worse. But often this husband will resent her positive attitude as well. The Lord will show this wife what is deep down in this mans heart that is driving him to be so negative . And The Lord will help her to rise above it, deal with it, and manage it. But it is a lot harder than you think and takes a lot longer than one would wish it would.

[In Christ]

We are all still doing okay...dh is still alive     And I'm glad too.      Silly isn't it....

I've been praying for you and appreciate your prayers too. 

THANK YOU so much x1000 

I don't mean this whiny, but I often 'feel' like I have no prayer support...it's probably not true, but I notice my children pray for their friends more than family and my husband doesn't even know the LORD so even if he were to pray, who would hear him?    Anyway, I have a few friends that are Christans and I think when I ask for prayer they DO pray, so for that, I'm thankful.

Dh is gone LIKE he's working again, but he's not 'employed'  just spending time around 'the business' waiting for a door to open.  He's VERY smart.....

I have thought about the characteristics of someone with Asperger's and I read them to my adult dd and she said they sounded like him, but mostly the part about him being SO smart, practical, logical, etc....I wouldn't mention it to ds at all....anyway, I did think about it though....I have a nephew and know others with PDD/NOS and such and I am SO patient with them all because I know they just can't help it...so, maybe it wouldn't be wrong and it would be helpful to pretend that DH really has something wrong with him that he can't help being so mean....I might be able to be more accepting and not take the words so personal (my kids notice but they don't take it so much to heart as I do).

Speaking of...I may have already mentioned this above, so sorry if I'm repeating   But Dd and I were talking about why I get SO upset over words and I wondered if it had something to do with growing up and being ABUSED from a 4 year old till about 16 years old in almost EVERY WAY possible, physically, sexually, emotionally, etc, but I don't think EVER was there VERBAL abuse....so maybe that has always been my only safe place, I've not been verbally abused (I don't mean this like it's some horrible grounds for divorce or anything, I'm just using that term).   But anyway, I think I did make the comment that I'd much rather be punched in the face than to listen to the constant cut-downs and negative stuff ALL of the time....anyway, it was just a thought....

I also was reading in Genesis (it's January    And I was noticing how much GOD's people really messed up, then thinking about almost ALL of GOD's people, throughout the whole BIBLE, they were constantly messing up and even the ones GOD so loved and still made a covenant with, etc...so ( OH new thought) I thought about how much I feel like a failure if I even think something negative, much less actually do something...I still WANT to please HIM so much, but as much as it has always upset bf's from the past and dh in the past when I COWER if they move to fast or raise their hand near me, like they are going to hit me (It really upset them because they know THEY've never hit me and don't understand why I do that and really, I've not been BEAT a whole lot like some people have or raped violently like some people have, but I've watched my mother have that done to her when I was VERY young, and my abuse was much less violent.)  Anyway I thought, maybe GOD too cringes or hurts when I "cower" before HIM like HE is about to strike me when I mess up...HE knows HE's NEVER done anything at all but love me and convict me lovingly and bring me good and never harm....so I bet GOD's hurts when I even let the thought that "HE's so angry HE'll punish me for sure this time" enter my mind....well, I can at least counter it with TRUTH if I can't stop it from entering for a while.  When I'm talking about the things I do wrong, I mean just like, thinking something wrong, or being on the computer for 10 minutes when I need to be doing something PRODUCTIVE :0)

Anyway, as for the "new thought" up there, as I was writing, I realized something...so my dh (as I have done all my life, esp before CHRIST in me) messes up over and over 'in my eyes" and I do have that "covenant" with him and I must still love him unconditionally and realize he does NOT have JESUS as his Savior, he doesn't have JESUS as his LORD, he doesn't have the SPIRIT of the Living GOD in him to teach, guide and help him...and to be honest, when you think about all that, maybe he's NOT so bad after all....I mean, how much worse could he be?   I don't live in the 'hell' and horror that many women and children have lived in or are still living in....there are more orphans and slaves in the world now than any other time in the History of this planet and I realy must just keep things in perspective......

So, as I told you all, it would pass and I would eventually realize that "my life ain't so bad" and my children aren't living in the horror I grew up in and as you wonderful ladies have shared, GOD can and has protected my children in so many ways and HE does love them WAY more than I even if I don't understand how that is possible.  AND I did give them to HIM a long time ago, so HE will use them to serve HIM and bring glory to HIS kingdom because HE loves them, they are HIS, and HE has and will answer this mother's prayers.....

"Just use my children and let them love and serve YOU all the days of their life"

So, please don't think you're time was wasted and if the LORD lays something on your heart, please don't hesitate to share because I still go back and read my topic from like a year or so ago and your posts are STILL blessing me and actually helped me when I first started THIS topic.....

I have prayed for the prayer requests and for you ladies as the LORD lays you on my heart.   

In CHRIST
S.

[rainygladness]

It is not for a wife  to tell  children "your father THINKS he is saved but we know otherwise, don't we?"  Is it?? 

I don't think it's necessary to bring it to their attention.  My sibs and I never asked our mom about our dad's salvation - she was the one that brought it up. And her "us against him" attitude backfired on her in so many ways later down the road.   I think if she would have just reverenced him regardless of whether she deemed him worthy of deserving it, we would have witnessed true Christianity in action through her and any questions that grew about our dad's salvation would have been self evident.

Honor him, but be truthful about saying he  is not IN Christ? How does one do that?

I think it's possible for a wife to honor her man without referring to his spiritual state.  She can leave that to God.

...and tell you not to tell HIM what the bible says because he knows better than anyone ( even though he hasn't picked his up in years.)

If her conversation is without the Word, he wouldn't be telling her this. 

This poor wife is caught right in the middle of a crossfire. All she can do is turn to The Lord herself and hope and believe that her actions will win him over, or at least not make the situation worse. But often this husband will resent her positive attitude as well. The Lord will show this wife what is deep down in this mans heart that is driving him to be so negative . And The Lord will help her to rise above it, deal with it, and manage it. But it is a lot harder than you think and takes a lot longer than one would wish it would.

I'm sure it IS harder than most of us think...but is God's arm shortened?  Is he not acquainted with our grief and promised us deliverance?   A thankful heart can take deep root when a wife who feels defeated shifts her focus to how blessed she is.  She'd do well to also remember that no one forced her to marry him.

I'm sure there are much wiser women here who could answer these questions and hopefully they will!    But in my experience, whatever the hardship, the answer is always the same.  Jesus. Knowing him, believing him, trusting him, meditating on his precious promises and obeying his commands.
I have found joy in the midst of great sorrow because of Jesus Christ.

That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ...1 Pet 1:7

[freshisbest]

But in my experience, whatever the hardship, the answer is always the same.  Jesus. Knowing him, believing him, trusting him, meditating on his precious promises and obeying his commands.
I have found joy in the midst of great sorrow because of Jesus Christ.

That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ...1 Pet 1:7

That is the bottom line. I'd like to add on behalf of someone I know struggling...your comment about

She'd do well to also remember that no one forced her to marry him.

What about the unsaved woman who was led to The Lord by her then fiance and married who she thought to be a born again believer? She saw miracles follow her conversion. They were in church twice a week and everytime the doors opened for special events. They read their bibles together and he was reading daily. Pitfalls in business they went through together and in fact together they rebuilt a business and had a family when " the world" told them they would not. She can remember the day, hour, moment when he left their church, however, just like she can remember the day, hour, minute she was saved and was resurrected into a new life through Jesus. And there began his slow deliberate slide to the
 " other side." A wife is helpless to stop it and yes Jesus is the only answer. For her to remain strong in her faith is a real challenge when her " own flesh" husband is coming against her. Showing honor, for this wife,  can sometimes ONLY be done with the help of The Lord.

[In Christ]

It was a very nice break....seems to be getting back to normal...I cannot find ear plugs anywhere in this house, nor my CD player and headphones....but I found some old headphones and an MP3 player I haven't touched in MANY months....so I turned it on and it's M.P.'s teaching in Romans    But I can't hear around me too well, ha...then he fell asleep....

Church was great.  GOD will surely teach me and grow me and change me to be more like my LORD...whatever HE does,  it's HIS choice...amen?  I can just try to be joyful that HE would even save me and allow me to be HIS.

I'm ready for a nap now too     

Thanks again for your prayers.

GOD bless all of you...

[duckgreyduck]

Your story is just breaking my heart! You do not deserve this! Your children do not deserve this! You do not have to be a martyr in order to get through the day! I would rather separate and spend the rest of my life alone- (never divorcing or remarrying or committing adultery) than spend one more minute with a man like that. You are a doormat to him because you allow yourself to be treated as a doormat. You deserve to be cherished I don't think he is capable of it.  I'm sorry for being so blunt. I don't know you- and I don't know your situation... I just wanted to chime in and be the voice that said it's okay to leave- if that's what you needed to hear. It just breaks my heart that you have to say 'well at least I don't live in the horror many women and children have to' in order to get through the day. There will always be someone who has a worse relationship, or who has suffered more, but it's not a good enough reason to stay in a bad, abusive, and detrimental relationship. Hold yourself to a higher standard, hold your children's needs to a higher standard and recognize that you deserve more.

Sorry again for being so blunt. Please know I don't judge you at all- I have no place to judge you. I just want you to know that you deserve more.

[In Christ]

D,

I understand what you are saying and I've been told many times before by many people that I'm being a 'doormat' and one day my wonderful godly friend made this comment and I just cried, LORD?

Well, this is what I believe HE gave me for a response:
"What is the purpose of a doormat?"  We don't really WALK around on them, they are to clean/wash our feet, right?


3Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
 4He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.

 5After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.



Then there is 1 Peter 3
I have read this so many times, and after many years, the LORD showed me that that first word wasn't there by accident, Likewise, or in other versions is says, "In the same way"  Well, one must ask "like what or WHO?"  or "in the same way as WHO?"  Therefore, I went back to the previous chapter to see what that verse was referring to since we know there are not chapter breaks in the original Scriptures   So, here is the part I read and below is the words I believe "Likewise" refers back to:

1Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

 2While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

 3Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

 4But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

 5For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:

6Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.




Likewise?

 20For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

 21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

 22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

 23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

 24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.


Also, I have to keep going back to this over and over...and take note of the last part of the 6th verse above....one versions says, "and she does not give way to fear."   

Now, I realize I lose it ever so often, but PRAISE GOD HIS WORD does not return void...I do get weary, and I forget to recall "Let us not grow weary in well doing for in DUE TIME."   (Sorry that is not a direct quote, but just me paraphrasing.

So, I so appreciate your post, because you are honest and shared your heart and your compassion, but I do realize that my problems seem MUCH bigger and much worse when I get tired and if nothing else, it FORCES me to either do something drastic, like murder or do something SIMPLE, like draw near unto my FATHER which is able to keep me and who holds me and who suffered MUCH more than I could ever imagine....and I must hope and pray and believe that ONE day my dh will know the LORD Jesus Christ as his own personal SAVIOR and as his own LORD and it will all be worth it...and as one lady above said, I just have to trust that GOD will protect my children and that HE wants so much more for them than I even. 

There are so many that live with much worse...than hateful, mean, critical, exaggerating, arguing, negative jerks.  He does not beat or cuss us, he doesn't do a LOT of things that many others do...and he, *** will be held accountable for his actions, and I WILL be held accountable for mine....and that scares me for BOTH of us...for I realize my thoughts will also be judged....

I hope this makes sense.   

With Love,
InChrist
There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness. Proverbs 30:12   
Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Isaiah 5:21
Ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy… Leviticus 11:44
Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. Romans 14:13
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Romans 14:21

[RunAmokFarm]

Dear InChrist,

What a beautiful response... 
J

[duckgreyduck]

In Christ,

Thank you for replying to me. I found your analogy between the doormat and the washing of Jesus' feet to be a very good one- but Jesus certainly didn't respond with hateful words and criticisms. I also believe there is a difference between caring for others and forfeiting all of your needs and wants to the point that you don't even know who you are anymore. I speak for myself here- and  my own experience, so it's possible that you don't feel the same way- I just felt a lot of parallels between the way your husband acts and the way my father was growing up.

I hope that your husband comes to Christ- but I hope that you don't punish yourself and your children in the vain hope that someday he might change. That day may never come and if it does the damage done now may be irreparable. I would also challenge you not to take on the full weight of needing to be 'perfect' in order to bring him to the Lord.  It might be that further submitting yourself will not help, or that leaving might be the wake up call that he needs to change (that's not to say that you absolutely SHOULD leave- just that the burden of his salvation shouldn't be a reason to stay).

You are right that your husband will answer for his actions in heaven- but you are responsible for your children here on earth. It's true that other people have it a lot worse- but don't let that be a reason to accept abusive behavior. I had a soul-crushing childhood, and I know how the cutting comments can be even worse than blows. I just don't want that for you.

I'm praying for you and I hope that you have the strength do do what you feel you need to- one way or another. God Bless

[RunAmokFarm]

Dear Duckgreyduck,

I have read the 3 posts you have made here on 7XSunday thus far, and each is in regard to abuse, or perceived abuse, between a husband and wife.  Your posts show a lot of pain and sadness, and for the life experiences you have suffered, I am so sorry...  When a husband and wife are not, both, living according to the Lord's guidelines, it can be a bumpy road indeed.

That said, I have lived a fairly "full" life myself (my mother was married 5-6 times, dated quite a few others... I was verbally abused, physically abused on a few occasions... molested... held hostage... then raped as a teen.) 

To make my life more "sad", my husband and I had a very "rocky" start.  Most "Christian" friends counseled me to divorce... and "bibilically", I had every "right" to.  In truth, however, it would have only been because of the hardness of my heart!  Oh what a sad, lonely, counterfeit life that would have been in comparison to the wonderful marriage I have now!

Yes, some of the women here have tough marriages... but with "tough" comes many, many rewards.  When one has experienced difficult marriages, it is easy to focus on the man's duty to his wife... but, truly, this is, perhaps, not the best angle for a wife (or daughter!) to focus on.

You mentioned that Jesus did not respond with hateful words and criticisms... but the reference was not to when Jesus' feet were being washed -- but when HE, God's only begotten SON, got down on His hands and knees and washed the filthy, stinking feet of his followers!  Can you imagine?  God, in the flesh, washing the feet of His creations?  What humility... what love.  I can tell you right now, not one of the men whose feet God washed was deserving.

I have found that following the Word, even during rough times, is better than our fleshly desires.  Yes, we may "deserve" better... but so did our savior.  Life can nearly always be more difficult than our current circumstances... and it will be, soon enough.  Things have a way of working themselves out at some point.

1 Corinthians 7:10-15
10And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
12But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.


Yes, a wife can often claim "biblical" right to leave... but I have rarely seen it end with the divorced woman and children "happy" and living enriched lives.   

Just some thoughts...
J

[SimplyTrusting]

InChrist, that was the most beautiful thing I've read for a long time. Wow. Thankyou!

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