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[Gabriel Anast]

OK, I'm going to try to chill here a little. I would like to ask you to do something for us though. Read through all the previous posts... try to figure out what they are saying and... comment on them. I guaranty that you never have read a thread like this anywhere else.

Just take your time... absorb it... and know that many of us do not go to church at all. Believe me when I say, we are not who you think we are.

--gabe

[BaptistLady]

I read through each reply, but I haven't been able to respond to each due to time restraints.

And I certainly would say that home-church counts as church, correct? Where ever two or more are gathered in Jesus' name!!!

[amy3js]

 Not all of us even home church, like me. Although my family does fellowship, but not in any sort of way most people would recognize as church or home church.

[BaptistLady]

So... do I have to ask outright to get answers as to what you do in place of church, or why you don't believe in the fellowship of the church? Or, if I'm not asking the right questions... I'm sure you understand the gist of this inquiry! Thank you

[Gabriel Anast]

I read through each reply, but I haven't been able to respond to each due to time restraints.

And I certainly would say that home-church counts as church, correct? Where ever two or more are gathered in Jesus' name!!!

OK... take your time. Know that there are a lot of folks here praying for you just (probably) because I am giving you a hard time. Enjoy work... after that, when you have time, take some time to "get to know us" just by reading through this thread and asking questions.

--gabe

[Siege]

BaptistLady, firstly I would like to say welcome. Secondly, I would like to address the "trolling" issue.

To you and other "newbies", please look at this issue from those of us longtime members. I poured my heart out to a lady and prayed fervently for her in her situation...and then found out it was all a joke to her. How do you think that makes me, a woman who was once in such a terrible situation, feel? First, my time was wasted, but second, a situation that is still a healing wound in my heart is made fun of. This is why many of us are untrusting at the moment. Give us time and be patient. I would suggest that you give Gabe your user name in the other forum. I understand why you don't want trolls from there to see you questions here if they are real. This way he can be assured that you are legit, and you are safe.

To Gabe, I am going to PM you on my next school break with the boys because I don't want what I have to say to be taken wrongly.

CJ

[Gabriel Anast]

So... do I have to ask outright to get answers as to what you do in place of church, or why you don't believe in the fellowship of the church? Or, if I'm not asking the right questions... I'm sure you understand the gist of this inquiry! Thank you

lol... oh wow... its going to take a while. First  there isn't a "we" here. There is a lot of disagreement here, and that is important and fundamental to the forum. On many occasions the Bible Study forum has been seen as a "Gabe's view only" forum... and maybe in application it has been... but the intention and my desire is that it be a place were men (forgive me, trying to follow the expression of the Bible here) discuss the Bible and what it has to say.

As concerns the fellowship of the body of Christ, I don't think there is anyone here that does not believe that it is a necessity... but that in some cases it is not possible, and that "what the church is" is (at least by me) highly contested in the light of modern teaching.

Anyway. Let it go for the moment. Take some time to ask questions and let the answers be unexpected. Please, listen carefully to what is being said.

--gabe

PS: this thread is wildly off topic. We can fix it in time.

[RunAmokFarm]

Dear BaptistLady,

As was mentioned a couple times, you happened to join at a time that may have, unfortunately, put you in a "suspect" group.     I, for one, would like to welcome any sincere questions you may have! 

For my family, my husband and I don't claim to be any certain "group" - we just believe the bible.  Here on 7X, we all will, at some point, disagree... but when we do, we try to remember it is Jesus' saving grace that binds us - and that the Word should be the final authority. 

Our forum "rules" are pretty strict -- not because we do not allow disagreement, but because we believe disagreement should be "orderly" and "well-thought out" -- not just flaming someone we don't agree with.  You will find that most of the regulars here consider each other as extended family...

Back to your original (and subsequent) posts regarding a wife working outside the home (who can't quit her job) - Most of us have chosen to live with a single income, in order to allow for the home-rearing of our children.  Not always "easy", but it really is full of reward.  That said, most will understand there are sometimes extenuating circumstances, and obviously, some husbands will request their wives to work outside of the home...  We have to adapt in varied circumstances.

What you have described of your work/childcare situation is much better than the average American home...  Your children are in the care of a trusted family member, or even better (!) their own father, while you are working -- certainly giving far more peace of mind than that of a regular daycare facility! 

While I work from home now, for a short time after our first child, work was difficult for my husband to find, so I did work outside the home.  During that time, my husband was the only caregiver for our son, and the arrangement "worked" for us.  Later, my husband told me that, if at all possible, he did not want me to work outside the home ever again.  It has been over 15 years since I worked outside our home - for part of that time, I did crafting or "peddling", with son in tow.    Again, adaptability is key when trying to live differently than what society deems "normal".

For the wife who feels stuck in an outside work situation but really desires to work from home, there are many women here who can give wonderful advice on how to start home-based businesses.

I do hope you are sincere in your questions... because I already like you!   
J

[ridgerunner]

I work outside the home, pretty much everyone here knows that, no one has ever made me feel ostracized or shamed because I haven't been able to stop and become a stay at home Mom. 

The lifestyle held dear at 7xs is understanding the Word of God and following His instructions, nothing more or less. We are all in different places in our lives so doing this could mean different things for some of us, but we (I believe) are all working toward the same goal - to get an answer for every question from the Bible and follow God.  Also - I don't go to 'church'.

[BJ_BOBBI_JO]

Before I make a post I wanted to ask, what is trolling?

Im certainly no experienced world travler since Ive only been to America, Canada and Jamaica. But while in Jamaica 2 different times on missions trips I couldnt help but to wonder what others think about wives/mothers there (and in other 3rd world countries) who work outside the home because it is the only means to feed their kids?

So much of the times it seems in Christian beliefs we sometimes tend to want to Americanize the interpetations on the Bible without looking outside the country and seeing the bigger picture.

How would a woman who lives in poverty stricken country  feed her kids and self without at least working part time outside the home? Especially if her husband left her like is so often the case.

Im not debating at all but these are questions that came to my mind a few weeks back when I was in Jamaica up in the mountains seeing all the poverty daily.

It isnt as easy or possible for a woman to run a home based bussiness in poverty stricken places, there isnt churches and organizations always around to help clothe and feed them, their govenment doesnt clothe and feed them, the food and clothing in the stores and elsewhere are sold at very high prices, there are no free health clinics, you cant grow gardens on rocky jungle infested mountain slopes very well, even the simple needed things in life cost to much such as soap-blankets-shoes-pencils-paper-plates/silverware-oil for lamps-flash lights and batteries- electicity-material to make clothing and so much more. So many of them live in a tiny 1 room home with no running water, no electric, no toilet, no access to water without walking long distances, no property, nothing. All that is very hard to come by and sometimes impossible to come by. And it cost more there in Jamaica then it does here in America and the average Jamaican working full time only makes around $2000 a year if they have a good job. For example a box of cereal was right around $7 American dollars, how can a mom feed 6 kids on that when she or her husband might only make $2000 American dollars  a year or less? And then they must also send the kids to school and pay for uniforms.  And forms of birth control are to expensive so more and more babies keep getting born into the family making more hungry bellies. (I am against any from of birth control that sometimes allows the conception but wont allow the baby to stick to the lining of the uterus and then baby dies).

Both times I have been there women have asked us to take their babies back to America so they could be raised having enough food and other needed stuff. It occured more this last trip because their econmy is suffering more because the American economy is suffering (they make their money off of tourism). One lady was outside near the road holding her baby and when we saw us drive by she yelled out "take my baby!". She did not yell it because she wanted freedom to go party but because she has no money to feed the baby. Seeing a vehicle full of whites in a dark skinned country driving up in the mountains away from the big town tourism pretty much singled us out as a Christian missions team.

So what Im saying is what about those countries that dont have all the opportunites that we have? How would a wife/mother there even begin to be a stay at home mom?

There they usually have grandparents or older siblings watch the kids while the parents go and try to earn money.

Im a stay at home homeschooling mom and Im thankful I can be but I also realize that this blessing is not a reality for many wives/mothers especially not in the 3rd world countries. Especially not for the single moms in those countries.

[andiclare]

BJ, trolling usually refers to someone who posts on a board like this to cause trouble, stir things up, etc. Not posting out of any real desire to be a part of the group or learn anything or get anything real out of it.

At this point I'll take BaptistLady's word for it that she's not doing this. 

BL, I'll second or third or whatever what the others have said about the Church thing. There really isn't one unified way of looking at that issue here. We're all individuals. Some people homechurch, some go to a regular "outside" or established church or parish, etc. My husband and I go to a regular, outside church (ie: don't homechurch). At the moment I work outside the home but I only have about 3 more weeks of doing that full-tim, God willing. We have a baby on the way and we're hoping for more, and hoping that I won't ever have to work outside the home again. We know it's going to be a sacrifice in some ways. And I'm not 1000% sure that it'll work out from the get-go. I may still need to do something part-time, at some point, if it takes a while for my husband to get authorized to work in the US. (He's a citizen of England, we're working on his visa as we speak.) So with us, we're hoping for one thing but we know that things might not immediately work out exactly like we want them to eventually be, so we're willing to be flexible as well.

[horsemama]

Phew, some great posts... lots to think about.
 

As to the original question... a woman not being able to quit her job......  from my own experience I have concluded that everyone has a price they are willing to pay for what they want. You may want “abc” lifestyle and you are willing, consciously or unconsciously, to pay xyz for it.  I know families where the mom says she “HAS” to go back to work because they are not making ends meet, but they still take an annual beach vacation, they still run 2 new cars, eat out regularly, etc.  In the end, you make your choices, and live with the consequences.

We have had it both ways (I can relate to Paul here)... when we first married 20 yrs ago, we had NOTHING! We owned 1 car, an old fridge, and a sewing machine (well at least I could make curtains with that!).  All the rest was borrowed. We have great memories of eating our meals sitting on the floor because we had no table or chairs.    When the kids came along, we decided that I would stay at home with them, unless it became totally impossible. Now I see that even that “totally impossible” benchmark was probably quite negotiable. 

 After a few years, Greg’s business started doing well, and we had a prosperous period. Took regular vacations, bought nicer cars, a bigger house..... 6 years ago we bought a farm, and now we are living “poor” again    The business is still doing well, but everything Greg makes goes into the bottomless pit of keeping this place running!  All the furniture we bought during our prosperous phase has been ruined by the children, the appliances die regularly from over-work, I have missing ceilings, no telephone, no clean drinking water in the house, ancient wiring which dies often, we eat mostly out of the garden...... in short, we have had to radically readjust our ideas of what we NEED.   

I am willing to make these sacrifices to keep this lifestyle...... but then if I had to live the way, say, our staff lives..... hmmm, honestly... I would probably look for a job.
Thankfully, I have been able to stay at home with the kids, although I have done various things to earn a few extra bucks here & there.  Last year, I ran a horse show here. It was a huge success and I made a tidy profit.  I’m  planning the next one!  I would NEVER have thought I could ever do this, but I guess having 6 kids has taught me some organisational skills along the way.

Re: churches & house churches..... I have been in 3 house churches, and they have all been very different! I’ll bet that our current house church looks very different to any of the other h/c here on 7xS.  They are as individual as families.

Re: Bobbijo’s Jamaica post.... I so TOTALLY agree with you.  I am on several forums for homeschool SAH moms of larger-than-average families, and I am sometimes appalled at the pettiness and judgemental attitudes I find there. And the assumption that everyone should see things the American Conservative Christian way. Urgh.  We live on a farm in South Africa, and employ women to do our planting and harvesting. I also have a Zulu lady as my household and garden  helper (don’t hate me please?). These are almost all single mothers, they work long hours for low wages, and they leave their children at home with Grannies who neglect them, or in the care of older siblings. I have been told I shouldn’t employ them, as women should be at home. What’s the alternative? They would starve, or turn to prostitution or crime. They are DESPERATE for work. We also employ a few men, but Zulu men will not do planting, weeding, harvesting – it’s women’s work.

I have a dream of creating a work environment here where mothers can bring their children with them, and have them work alongside...... but so far I am not able to make that happen.

Y’all will probably be mad at me for saying this, but American Conservative Christians are some of the worst people I have ever met at majoring on minor issues!  I have had American guests here comment on the immodest way our staff are dressed...... when these ladies are grateful to have ANY clothes at all..... really a spaghetti strap vest is a total non-issue!
 
OK nuff said.

[GarlicMomma]

Y’all will probably be mad at me for saying this, but American Conservative Christians are some of the worst people I have ever met at majoring on minor issues!  I have had American guests here comment on the immodest way our staff are dressed...... when these ladies are grateful to have ANY clothes at all..... really a spaghetti strap vest is a total non-issue!
 
OK nuff said.

Oh, goodness. I am not mad at all. My experience has been that:

1. Americans as a whole are seen as acting spoiled and not understanding of local culture in other countries (and even in other parts of our own country).

2. I have been guilty of harping on the minor issues. It has been a bondage for me. Only the past few years of experience has really shown me the pettiness and judgmental spirit I had. Now I pray that God continually teaches me to see people as only He can see him. I have been guilty of looking at the outward appearance (type, clothing, and actions).   God has been so good to me to break this bondage. Praise to Him.

Thank you for the reminder to keep looking past the outward appearance.

Might I also add that it is not only Americans going to other countries. It seems to include Americans when we go outside of our minuscule-contrived comfort zone. That could even include going to Wal-Mart and seeing people we would prefer not spending time with.

You know what I mean. There is even a whole site (not completely clean - devoted to the people of WalMart -> google-able). Honestly, when I look at those people, my gut reaction is "what were you thinking?"  and "I do not want to really know you."  By the way, I am not saying throw caution to the wind, but I hope you understand what I mean. I dwell on the outward appearance, and not the life within, nor understanding what they are coming from and their personal situation.

There is a lot of women both in this country and in others, like what was mentioned here, that have to  get a job for financial support. In our family, I am thankful that my husband allows me to stay at home.  But I truly feel that this is my job, just on paper I worth nothing. Thanks Soc. Sec. system! I get reminders of how worthless I am in the world's eyes!

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