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[BJ_BOBBI_JO]

I believe a "keeper at home" is just what it says "at home" being at home is more to me than just the home duties..its my responsibility to watch the home front, and protect the home front..its my post.

You arent alone in your thoughts about that. I have been a stay at home wife/mom since 2000 when our 1st was born. Last November (2009) my husband lost his job. This economy is not good, the job losses are bad. It angers me when I hear on Tv how the job market is picking up because Im not seeing it around here.

My husband has put in apps all over the place with no luck. If it wasnt for God having people help us out by paying for our electric, phone, food and so on we would be living in a cold house with no lights and surviving off canned foods. It was amazing how people would provide out of the blue without even realizing how desperate our situation has been.

I know some on here believe health insurance is diabolically evil but my hubby and I dont believe it is bad in all cases. Thankfully here recently Im on a special insurance that pays for my diabetic insulins/supplies each month which can total up to $1000-$1500 a month. And yes I use herbs but not even herbs can always heal something 100%.  God even had someone pay our monthly insurance payment so I would not be dropped from it and be without my insulins and supplies. My diabetic supplies is what sunk us so deep into dept and what eats up so much of the money my husband worked so hard to earn. So now this insurance is a blessin to us.

Then God opened doors for us to make some money just as I had prayed for Him to do.I prayed that if it be His will that a door for me and my hubby to make money open for us before we lose our home and our only vehicle and everything else we own. After crying all that out to God my hubby got a job and his boss is ready for him to start working at the end of March (it's a new bussiness) and I got a call to come work at a temporary job for 2-3 months only and also I may have a possible writing job elsewhere.

Im so greatful. Since we have been struggling so bad over the past months I have saw God provide in amazing ways. I mean unbelievable. I wanted a dog muzzle so my husky would stop killing chickens and cats when he went outside to go potty. God provided one. I needed homeschool materials. God provided them. I needed a freezer because ours broke and God provided one. We needed gas so we could drive to town to get groceries and insulin and go to church and God provided it. I prayed for heat because the chain saw broke and my husband got injured from the saw  and needed stitches and could not cut anymore wood for a few weeks and God provided several loads of wood for us. This has been a bitter cold winter and this old farm house was cold and I prayed for some extra heat and God provided it. We needed bathing/cleaning supplies and I prayed for them and God provided them. We needed food and God provided. We prayed and asked God for a way to make some imcome so we could pay our bills and God provided them.  God is providing this temporary way to make some money over the next 2-3 months. God provided. God just dont stop, he keeps on keeping on. I believe that in order to fully see and understand Gods miacles of provison that I needed to be allowed to be sunk down into this dispair and American poverty because if we had been continuing to be able to do it all ourselves 24/7 then I dont think we would have learned to have the faith in God that we now have. And now things are looking up some and that is because God is providing work for us and so much more. Some may think that God cant and wont provide and bless someone who dont interpet the Bible  and live in the same way they do but ya know what? They are wrong.

 Some may down me for working outside the home for 2-3 months starting next week but ya know what? Who cares what they think? It is what God thinks and perhaps God doesnt think in the same way others think He does. I feel like I want to respect how others interpet the Bible on if a wife/mother should be working to help feed her family and have a place to live but that doesnt mean I have to agree with them. IMO it would be wrong to sit at home with starving kids and the bank calling to take the home away when there is a job the mom can do(if the dad cant) to keep them afloat until the dad finds a job or until they get things taken care of. You do what you gotta do and leave it in Gods hands. Although I do wish those mothers who work away from home full time and dont need to would realize how important their presence is at home tending to their kids instead of baby sitters raising them. But I do also realize that sometimes this is not a reality for every mother, espeically the widow mother to young kids. I believe that if our husbands ask for us to help make money so the family can survive and have the simple basics in life like food, heat and so on then so be it. Im glad I will only be working a temp job that only last 2-3 months. I will be glad when it is over and Im back to being a stay at home mother/wife homeschooling my kids outside in Gods nature.

Leave it in Gods hands and have Him direct. Have HIM direct not the thoughts and feelings of me or anyone else. Only Him. Only God. Let Him lead.

[Gabriel Anast]

It is what God thinks and perhaps God doesnt think in the same way others think He does.

I also agree that in the absence of teaching, God has a lot of mercy. However, in the presence of teaching, my understanding is that God will vindicate His word. In other words, one path or the other is right before God. When an individual is ignorant of the ways of God, I think God allows any understanding and obedience to be blessed while ignoring some (or a lot of) disobedience. Once knowledge is made plain and understanding is gained, God chastens disobedience / misunderstanding.

So, make careful observation now that a clear difference is known (a distinct separation between one interpretation of the Bible and another). Look and see which one God blesses and which one He chastens. He says He will be perfectly faithful to you and to His word.

--gabe

[Gabriel Anast]

Gabe, I think the new audio reflects a misunderstanding about what I was trying to communicate in earlier posts.  So, I thought I would clarify it.   I was not in any way put off by what you said about the statistics or the existence of inequities for women in the workplace in the Western World and Third-World countries.  I do not disagree with the statistics or what they bear out.  I also did not think you were saying that women are less capable, intelligent, qualified or talented than men.  My intent was to communicate two things.  First, that, notwithstanding the statistics, there are many women in the work force (several of whom my husband and I know) who, based solely on their abilities and qualifications, earn as much or more than similarly situated men.  Second, my concern was, that, if those women read this thread or listen to the audio, they might end up rejecting or dismissing the idea of being a keeper at home if the reasoning offered for doing so was statistics and stereotypes which don't apply to their particular situation.  I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.  Thanks. 

heh... OK, I thought that I made that point, lol. Would you quote me and tell me exactly how I missed it, or where I should have made it more clear?

As an aside, in my experience, there are no cases of women making it "as easily" as men in the same place in the same industry / area. It requires more work, more quality, more tenacity, etc as concerns women in industry. Maybe that is the problem here... is that what you are sensing, and disagreeing with in the audio? If so, I will have to think about that... and see if I can come up with examples / cases that would persuade me.

--gabe

[Amy Joy]

As an aside, in my experience, there are no cases of women making it "as easily" as men in the same place in the same industry / area. ...  Is that what you are sensing, and disagreeing with in the audio?

No, I did not sense that in the audio and so I was not responding to that.

[Amy Joy]

You may say, "but we're supposed to obey our husbands!"

May I ask in light of all Scripture... what is a husband? I cannot find a place in Scripture where a man can send his wife out to work for another man without this constituting "putting away."

It seemed to me as if Abraham did this very thing (twice), and yet God still viewed Sarah as Abraham's wife.  
 

If he told you to do other things that God plainly forbids, would you insist on obeying your husband? "He told me to commit adultery! ....  ... what was I supposed to do... I have to obey my husband!"

It seemed to me as if Sarah did this very thing (twice), and that women are encouraged in Scripture to be Sarah's daughters.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Twice, Abraham told Sarah to leave his household.  He no longer provided food, clothing, shelter, or duty of marriage (sex) to Sarah.

The first time, Sarah was sent to the household of Pharaoh, the King of Egypt, to "work" for him as one of the king's wives or concubines.  The king paid an amazing price to Abraham to have Sarah and her services.  To me, as a woman in love with her own spouse, that would feel like I was being told by my husband to both commit adultery and to "work" outside my husband's own house for another man as my sole head -- and Abraham became the wealthier for it.  Yet, through it all, God continued to view Sarah as Abraham's wife.  God plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of this, and Pharaoh finally returned Sarah to her husband.

The second time, Sarah was given to Abimelech king of Gerar who never even "touched her" while she was in his possession.  God came to the king by night in a dream and said, "Behold, thou [art but] a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she [is] a man's wife."  God said he knew the king was a man of integrity in his heart; therefore, God withheld this king from sinning against God by suffering him not to touch Sarah while she was in the king's household.  God commanded, "Now therefore restore the man [his] wife...."

In both cases, obedient Sarah was returned to Abraham's possession... and Abraham was left with all the wealth two kings had provided him in exchange for Sarah's time away from the home.
 
God did not rebuke Sarah.  Nor did God say, "Abraham put Sarah away; the king is providing for Sarah now; therefore, Sarah is the king's woman."  Instead, God informed each king (and us) through dreams and plagues that this 'put-out woman' was still Abraham's wife in God's eyes! 

I am commanded to obey and submit to my husband - even if he is not obeying and submitting to God! Just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. He (in faithlessness toward God's promise)  commanded her to tell the king of Egypt that she was Abraham's sister - thus insuring Abraham's life. He endangered her (twice!) and yet  because of her obedience to the authority she was placed under, God was then "free" to supernaturally protect her - and teach Abraham!

It is backward to say that you submit to your husband by submitting to God - or even that submitting to God is spiritual. The better way to say it would be, "By submitting to my husband I am "walking after the Spirit" because it is obedience to the commandments of God."

To obey God in order to obey my husband would be like telling my supervisor at work that I had rather obey his boss instead of him. His boss made him my supervisor to facilitate business operations. If I bypass my superior in order to get my orders (even if they are the exact same orders) straight from the boss - I am casting doubt and disorder upon the boss's management skills, and will likely get fired.

Eph 5:23 - Wives submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Summary:
Submitting to my husband IS submitting to God.

PS: there are exceptions to the saftey=under authority rule: if your husband (or father) is abusive and breaking the laws of man (sodomy, violence, robbery, etc...), then you should go to the highest authority (God) and cry out for protection in the situation. God will give you wisdom and tell you what to do... to run, to call the police, etc. Otherwise (if he's just plain ungodly) you are righteous when you abide in the authority he has been given.

Okay, to me, the above post seemed more in line with the teaching I have seen for years on 7xS.  Specifically that, a wife is to be like Sarah and obey the leading of her husband without fear or amazement when he asks her to do "whatever thing" that is not an exception (sodomy, violence, robbery, etc...).    I thought it was always taught by you that God will eventually intervene for the wife who does righteously by obeying her own husband. 

Therefore, my husband and I have not been able to understand how you could say that a wife would be in personal sin against God if she listened to her husband's command to work outside the home for pay; or, that this would constitute her husband as having "put her away," thereby leaving her free to be another man's woman. 

Sarah was not criticized by God but lauded for her obedience.  Also, since Abraham is a dignity... and we are not to rail against him for his instructions to Sarah, it seems most unfitting to lead a wife to rail against her husband (even in her own mind) or to disobey him if he has instructed her to have a paying job outside the home.     

Finally, I just wanted to say that I am open to considering any explanation of why I might be wrong in my assessment of this matter, and that I would take before my husband any teaching that I may hear subsequent to this post.

[Amy Joy]

Off-line correspondence from a 7xSunday member, who I will call "Tekla Chesna."

AmyJoy,

I wanted to contact you a lot sooner about your post but I just couldn't find the words. The relief has been so... monumental. 

For some time now I've felt that there was something in the Bible, probably staring me right in the face, that I was missing when I would search it looking for a clear answer as to whether or not I should defy my own good husband and just quit working, or leave him on the grounds that him ordering me to work for a defined period of time disqualified him as my head.  I never felt that God would bless either action of mine, but the strong words about this from 7xs had me truly afraid. 

When you mentioned the fact that Abraham told Sarah to go be one of the King's women and she did exactly as he instructed, I felt like I finally had found a concrete answer to this question, from the Bible, in a scenario that I could understand. God didn't see her as anything other than an obedient wife (obedient to God by being obedient to her head, and he still saw Abraham as her head.)  It sounded like God blessed Abraham for Sarah's obedience. 

Thank you!!!!

Sincerely,

Tekla Chesna

[Amy Joy]

Thanks for writing, Tekla Chesna.  I would encourage women to NOT rely solely on the counsel, teachings, or assessments of anyone out there, including my own husband and me for that matter.  I do think it is good to hear people out and to ask clarifying questions if you think they're lovers of God; and, then, as you are already doing on your own, to take their ideas or teachings before the Lord and his Word through personal study and prayer (and your own DH, of course, if he is a believer), to see if it is so.  Praise the Lord, God and his Word are never wrong... whereas any human, including my own husband or me, or anyone else who posts here on 7xSunday, may be "off" on some things.

[Amy Joy]

Totally agree, AmyJoy, I'm doing that now. But if you don't mind, I'm going to ask you to put one more email on there for me anonymously.

[This thread] affected my marriage badly for awhile. I'm sure it was partly my fault. I was confused about the teaching concerning about what marriage is, and the whole "putting away" thing in light of the fact that my own hardworking husband has ordered me to keep working for awhile for a few reasons. Maybe it was my fault for going to 7xs for advice about my situation instead of just praying and listening to DH. Considering the respect I had for 7xs, I became pretty affected by what I read and these teachings greatly upset my marriage because I just accepted them right away out of fear.

Later I decided I needed to take everything back to God, as I should have done in the first place, before making any further changes in my life. Especially changes that would have such a drastic affect on my marriage and family, maybe even end my marriage to a good man who loves me and our children. 

I could see how if a man is a total slacker, irresponsible, is capable but won't work in any way to provide shelter, etc, and is just "using you" to do the providing, then there's no marriage there at all by his choice. If things don't turn around for khix [on the money personalities thread], I could see how she might end up in that boat. But that wasn't my situation at all!

From God I wasn't getting a clear "Yes, you need to quit work against your husband's will and stay home. If DH orders you to keep working for awhile, then you must leave him because he's put you out by ordering you to work and leaving you unbound. You and his/your kids are no longer under his headship. You'll be in sin and I'll punish you, or you'll not be my own anymore and I'll damn you, unless you defy your DH by quitting work or defy him by leaving and taking the kids with you. Because he's not their provider and head anymore either, if he says you have to work."

Also as I thought more about it, it bothered me that when BJ has always been a stay at home wife but she was just going to take a temporary job for a few months until her DH's new job started, then God was going to  chasten her because she already heard teaching about this on 7xs.  Even if some of us misunderstand the teaching, and we go ahead and get a job or keep working as our DH says to do, God's still going to chasten us because a clear distinction was supposedly made on 7xs between one Bible interpretation and another, between one path and the other. But I really don't think it was clear, just threatening. I didn't realize it at first but it was fear that made me jump through the hoop without taking it to God first, without getting my own personal understanding of it.

Another newer thing was on [the money personalities] thread recently. If a wife already quit work because of the teaching on this website (she took 7xs's word on it in fear), and then later she repented and worked again because her DH ordered this, then she's not being an obedient wife like Sarah (who followed the God of Abraham by doing what her DH said to do). Instead she's a dog returning to its own vomit. She's left God and she's following another god now. 

The thing is, I wasn't hearing any of the above "truths" from God for myself!

Some would say it's right there in the Bible so God doesn't need to tell me this personally. Problem is, I looked for this teaching in the Bible. I mean, I really looked for it because I want to stay home right now. But, I never found where God says that! So I was super stressed until I remembered those stories of Sarah and Abraham.

It just seems wrong to feel like I'm going to hell when I die or like I'm going to get the wrath of God poured out on me in this life for NOT following a man's instructions that I couldn't find clear evidence of in the Bible. This doesn't mean I don't appreciate 7xs. I do! But I don't want some man and wife team to replace God in my life and they almost did when I blindly believed what was written because of threats woven into the teachings on marriage about what would happen to me if I didn't do what they say.

Like I said, I'm sure it was largely my fault for quickly believing a man's interpretation without taking it to God myself first. Let me say that I do fear God. I fear him a lot! Which is exactly why I don't want to believe the voice of some human being over the voice and command of my God since that really would be idolatry!
 
I'm going back through this thread again, and some of the other threads now that I feel like I can do it without fear. I'm studying the issue for the first time for myself and I'm doing it with Abraham, Sarah and their God (my God too) in mind.

I really bothers me that I feel afraid to logon under my username to question anything. But... I feel fear. I don't want to hear that God's going to chastise me or that I've left Christ or that I'm one of those devilish Jezebels they have to deal with or ignore just because I'm questioning things or disagreeing with some things.

Sincerely,
 
Tekla Chesna

[Amy Joy]

Okay, Tekla Chesna.  I posted your emails, as requested.  I suppose anyone who reads here will keep in mind that this has been a hot topic since its inception.  Hot topics often bring out disagreement as people seek to know God's take on a matter.  Iron sharpeneth iron, and I suppose some amount of friction, sparks, and heat  can be expected in this exercise.  Whetting the edge of our words with the oil of love will help the process stay safe IMO.  Overall, I think we can all agree that these "marriage-and-putting-out" threads have been very thought-provoking... and I believe they will benefit a number of us women as we consider the various viewpoints presented in threads to Sarah's Daughters and, then, I believe we women must study God's Word for ourselves and take these matters before our own husbands and the LORD for further instruction and confirmation, either way.

[BJ_BOBBI_JO]

WOW AmyJoy and Tekla Chesna you have both stated it so well! Oh how I agree!
I was afraid to even post prayer request about my health out of fear that some might say something like "well God put this health crises upon you because you dared to take on a seasonal temp job".  But as I thought about it I knew better. I knew the health crises I have been goinng threw has been unknowinly going on for years and now we know has been there all of my life, from birth.
The words conditional verses unconditional kept coming to my mind. Humans seem to only understand conditional love where as we have to work to get love, acceptance, respect, friends, ect. Such as we have to earn bonus points in school work and at jobs. With human relationships we treat others nice because they treat us nice. It's all dending on the conditions. But with God it seems to be unconditional where as He loves us no matter what and wants to bless us no matter what. No matter the conditions. No kissing up and trying to earn brownie points with God.
Im still working at my temp job 2 nights a week with my husbands blessing. The job is ultra busy this year and keeping their temps around longer. It has been a relief on my hard working husband and a great help to us. And even to this day God is still blessing us and providing for us.

I lived without health insurance for several years. It would cost my husband $250-$350 a week to keep me alive. That is only if I reused things like needles. Insulin is not cheap. And now that I need meds for the pancreas and bile ducts issues it cost even more. Unknowingly Ive had bile duct and pancreas issues all my life am now needing special meds. This makes the cost to keep me alive each week go even higher. I duno what it is now. Maybe $350-$500 a week if I reuse needles and finger stabbing needles.
But some of the stuff (not all) Ive read on here says health insurance is bad. So I was confused. Like Tekla Chesna I didnt take it to God 1st and then my husband. I lightly mentioned it here and there to my husband and he thought it nuts. He was going nearly insane trying to work himself to death for the kids and I to have shelter, food and my medical things. Herbs have helped me but not healed me of double diabetes, chronic pancreatitis or sphincter of oddi bile ducts. The stress for my husband in trying to pay nearly $1100-$1500 a month to keep me alive along with buying food and supplies was killing our marriage and lives. There was little happiness when there was non stop money stress. I would send the kids outside to forrage for food. No money to buy food then thanks to the high cost of insulins and supplies. But I didnt se those who preach no insurance helping provide us with my life saving medical needs or with any helpful herbs. I only saw words of legalism.
Then finally I got the chance to get on a special new health insurance for low income sickly people. We pay for it, it isnt free. But it isnt anywhere near as much as we paid out of pocket for my medical stuff. And with this insurance I was able to get the medical care I need and the test to help find out what I have had all of my life that is now getting bad. Now I know what it is and can help treat it naturally along with the prescribed meds. Before I had insurance I could only guess what it was and attempt to treat the symptoms without treating the cause.  Finally now we can breathe. We no longer pay well over $1000 a month to keep me alive. And now thanks to me working 2 nights a week we can breathe even more. No, we arent living high on the hog with all kinds of fancy things. Our money goes to pay bills and needed supplies and buy food. We still forrage for food, use herbs and try to save money. But now we can breathe, we can enjoy a nice deep breath of air without the fear of me dying from a lack of insulin and from the kids possibly being taken away because of a lack of food in our home. Finally we can breathe!
And ya know what? I have never saw God move as mush as He has this past year or so. The blessings and provisions have come our way like never before. One after another after another. No it isnt new houses and things like that but things we need and have needed for so long. And God hasnt only been providing for our needs but also He has thrown in a few wants in there such as camping at a $6 a night little campground. This has provided many hours of family enjoyment and memories for us this year. It is something that we have wanted for so long. God isnt throwing me by the wayside ignoring me because I havent been good enough, nor is He ignoring me because I dont live by this or that rule. Instead He loves me, pays attention to me.
Now, why didnt I just go to God 1st a long time ago? It seems like it sure would have been helpful if I had.
OK so now that Im sure some will missunderstand my intentions with this post let me say that I am not bashing this forum or its owners nor its mods nor its members in the least bit. I respect them. I pray for them. I even like them from what I know of them. But that does not mean I need to put them in place of God and His Word.
I believe if memory serves me correct Gabe said  on a thread before, something about his hopes were to encourage people to go to the Bible and search for themselves. Well its being done. And in doing that I and others are finding that some of (not all) the teachings on here are probably well meaning but very missguided. Nevertheless I still respect this forum and have gained helpful advice and am glad to have been a part of it. It's good to get all that out in the open. Sometimes "suffering" silently just isnt a healthy thing. Sometimes things just need to be said. In love.

[Amy Joy]

It has been awhile since I remembered "Mara," but her name came up in conversation with a friend the other day and I thought I should post her story.  Years ago, I knew this Christian career woman fairly well.  Later, "Mara" became a star in her universe when she was working full-time for a well known Christian ministry.  Mara was a brilliant go-getter and achiever.  Her husband, she felt, was a sort of plodding-along Mr. Steady.  She believed that people were surprised that a woman like herself had agreed to marry an undeserving, nice, regular ol' guy like him.  Mr. Steady felt the same way. 

Mara and her husband had the typical two kids (boy and girl).  As their children got older, about 14 and 15 years of age, Mara became exposed to some mild quiverful teachings.  Fully convicted, and being the strong one in their marriage and very open to the "Lord's leading," she influenced her husband to "see the truth of God's Word," and, so, they had two more children.  I suppose Mara would have pushed for more children but her menopause began. 

Prior to her last two pregnancies, Mara was exposed to the teaching about women being keepers at home.  Her first two children were not turning out well.  She was told by a minister and his wife that the reason she was "losing" her older kids was because Mara was a woman who worked outside the home for pay. 

The teachings Mara absorbed about being a keeper at home were rather militant in their application, in our opinion.  By this, I mean that, Mara was encouraged to "obey God" over her husband who felt they needed her income.  We had seen this same type of encouragement offered to women about a variety of topics: Makeup, jewelry, sports, wine and beer, as many kids as possible, movies, TV, pants, cape dresses, head coverings, home school, music, college, the observance of Christmas and Easter, decorating the house, mandatory church attendance, etc.  Mara made decisions about some of these things against her husband's protests. 

Mara believed that if "God's commands" differed from her husband's commands, she was to obey God and not her husband.  Therefore, Mara decided, on her own, that she was not going to lose anymore children by working their lives away.  She was going to quit work and never go back; her decision to follow God and not her husband in this was final. 

Later, she was a popular speaker at local women's meetings where I lived.  She gave testimony about her husband's initial resistance to this announcement and to the financial difficulties that ensued until her husband finally "came around" to her way of thinking (i.e. that she should quit work based upon her own decision) -- which she said was actually God's way of thinking (i.e. that she should work quit against her husband's will).

At these women's meetings and in private counseling sessions, Mara recommended clever ways to "help" husbands to see how good their wives' decision is... how to posture it in public... how to respond to people's inquiries and comments... how to build up your man within his hearing until, one day, he actually forgets that it was your doing and he starts thinking it was his idea all along.  She said that husbands will be proud to claim the credit for this once they see how good it is for them and their families.

To my husband and me, her entire "show" and presentation smacked of pure manipulation and witchcraft.    

Mara's younger children are growing up and, frankly, there still are troubles.  Maybe there is another problem that remains unaddressed which affects Mara's children.  Perhaps it is Mara's manipulations and spiritual double-speak that affects her children more than working outside the home ever did or could, I don't know.  Either way, my husband cannot see how a wife is able to quit working against her husband's express orders while still remaining in submission to him.   

_______________________________________________________________________

ENDNOTES

Submission:  "[The] act of referring to a third party for judgment or decision.  Humble obedience.  Yielding power."

Manipulation: "The act of controlling or influencing a person or situation cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously.  

Influence: "The act of holding sway, impact, power, authority, mastery, domination, supremacy, guidance, direction, or pressure over a person or situation; to put ideas into someone's head.  The imperceptible or indirect action exerted to cause changes."

[Beth]

This is a bit of a veer in the path of this thread....just a bit....
I have observed manipulation as Amy Joy pointed out in her last post about Mara.... Only it comes from the opposite direction.

In American culture women and men both often are simply not satisfied with what they have. They want the new car, bigger house, flat screen TV,etc. Or in the homeschooling circles they want full size van for taking the kids to events, top of the line (expensive) curriculum, latest computer, big house in the country, etc, etc.

In order to maintain all of this the wife needs to get a part time job (I'm not referring to you BJ ) to make the pay'ts on all that....Sometimes, the husband begins to tell the wife, "slow down we are spending too much....do we really need that new van?" Where as the wife in turn begins to manipulate the situation in the same way as Mara in the story by Amy Joy. Pretty soon the husband is convinced she needs this part-time or even full-time job....

Just pointing out that manipulation works both ways. Many women and honestly, I think I have seen more women simply unable to live without all those extras....hence she needs to get a job to be able to pay for them.....I would go so far as to say that the majority of the time this is at least part of the problem.

I totally agree with Amy Joy on not letting all these doctrines and ideas out there become our authority rather than our husbands!! Amen!!

[Amy Joy]

Good insight (and a timely caution) about the flip-side of the "manipulation coin," Beth!

[denim&lace]

I thought this would be the appropriate place...

We are thankful that I will start working as a personal care assistant on Friday for a lady from our church.  3 days a week, 3 hours a day, while my babies nap and big kids do their independant school work... 

I've actually spent a lot of time helping this lady out with errands and shopping, spending some time with her cause she is lonely and such... now, I'll be getting paid for it.    All at the encouragement of my good husband, of course.    

And the $ will be a welcome addition to a strained budget that has suffered from the need to buy all whole foods and supplements for our little ones. 
   

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