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Author Topic: Changing my thinking after Porn  (Read 1022 times)
preachrsgirl
Learning

Posts: 7
« on: February 10, 2010, 09:08:35 AM »
 I have been asked to repost here a post I have in another area. So, here it is...
 A while back my dh came to me and told me he had looked at innapropriate pics. online. (It was only pics. and it wasn't what I would consider hard core) I'm not trying to defend it,but just want to give an idea of exactly what's going on.
He admitted what he had done and was very sorry. He also was very willing to make changes to make sure it would not happen again. Most of the changes were his idea.
 I forgive him and we are working through this and praying God will strengthen us and our marriage.
But my problem is I can't get this out of my mind. When he talks to other women at church or work, I wonder what he is thinking. When an attractive woman walks by, I worry that he is thinking about her. And I'm driving myself crazy. Him too probably. I don't want to be this kind of wife. I love my husband and I know that he loves me too. He is a great husband,(honestly probably better than I am a wife.)
Another thing that's compounding this is that I have a much higher "drive" than my husband. It's been this way our entire marriage. I had learned to just accept that fact,but now it seems HUGE to me. I am constantly worrying and wondering. And that cannot produce a healthy happy beautiful marriage, I'm sure. What do I do?Huh
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Gabriel Anast
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Posts: 1588
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2010, 01:51:50 PM »
OK, sorry for how long I have taken to get to this... I am writing a much longer document on "Men and Women" from the perspective of the Bible... however, I am going to offer a short answer now that ultimately refers to what I will post later.

As concerns a man's physical obligation to his woman:

1) A man owes his wife "due benevolence" or, in another place called, "duty of marriage." The idea here is not just copulation, but complete satisfaction. In the passage that uses the term, "due benevolence," the statement is predicated by the idea that the woman does not exclusively "own" her body, and in the same sense neither does the man exclusively "own" his body. In marriage, they are for each other... if you want to take it to base terms, they are for each other in order to avoid fornication (adultery, etc).

In the recent sybermoms / freejinger mess, I did come across one great post. A woman mentioned that in her marriage, she and her husband would just say, "that's mine..." in other words, if one of them needed love (sex, yes... but not just sex. Love, affection, physical care... including sex), they just asserted, more or less, that it was "their's to have." Evidently, the other, in meekness (possibly just out of duty, but in willingness and love) would provide it for them. This is exactly what Paul is saying in 1 Corinthians 7.

If the husband does not provide duty of marriage, this is real grounds for divorce in both the Old and New Testament as I see it. If a man cannot provide for his wife, then she has no "place" with him, and has no obligation to him. Observant Jewish women even today often get a clause in their marriage contract that stipulates four (yes, 4!) nights a week. Not that they demand it, but that if someone else shows up in his life such that he cannot fill the contractual quota... heh... she has legal and religious right to divorce him .

I am not saying here that you should want to divorce him, just that he should know that if you left, you would be justified before God. Typically, this would cause a man to repent.

2) Issues of defrauding (including "theft of physical affection" in marriage) were matters that were to be judged by the body (1 Cor 6). I am not suggesting that you bring this matter before your church. Most churches have no plurality of teachers, their teachers are bought and paid for, and you would certainly get bad advice and no real help. I am suggesting, though, that in a right ordered body, your husband would be rebuked by the elders (if what you are saying is the complete story, obviously there might be other factors to consider). He has no right to withhold sex, quite frankly, and not just "get in, get off, get out" sex, but real affection (please forgive my crudeness... people will use any excuse to "defraud" these days). Real benevolence, literally, "kindness," or, "was it good for you too?"

3) Not specifically related, but provision of food, clothing and a place to live are also required. If a man wants any hope of justification before God should his wife decide to call it quits, he had better have provided these for her as well. Not that she cannot make money or engage in commerce, but that he must not farm her out for work to another man / company / etc. She should have place to do this (according to his direction) from within the safety and provision that he already offers.

4) Amazingly... all of the above are God's duty to man (men and women, but to make the case simpler, men in specific). Not sex in a specific sense, bleh, but that if a god gives a man no "joy in life" then the man has every right to leave that god. Many times people (men in specific here) ask God for things He has no obligation to provide and forget to ask (even demand, but not in bitterness... just in a "that's mine!" sort of way) for the things that, according to His own law, He has promised that He will provide... if indeed He is a god at all. Note that this is said in context, and does not, and never can excuse bitterness or lack of looking / seeking on the man's part.

As concerns pornography:

I think that if he understood marriage and his obligation to you... the porn issue would be long gone. Unfortunately he doesn't, and this culture (including his church and his marriage vows even) has taught him that replacing his wife with something else is fine. Be that pornography, another woman, whatever. This, I think, is why you are jealous. Not because he saw / looked for pornography, but because he has this perspective that he has no duty to you, and that if he is tired of you or whatever, he can replace you. The same attitude that the Pharisees had when questioning Jesus in Matthew 19 (note to the confused: I am not justifying pornography here... just not specifically addressing it).

What I am saying is that the jealousy is right... but don't let it turn to bitterness. Every time you think of it, turn it to prayer to God that He would do right by you through your husband... this based on your own righteousness in the situation. God will hear you, and guide you. I do not know what the outcome will be, be it will be good. It will satisfy that righteous jealousy.

--gabe
« Last Edit: February 13, 2010, 05:02:05 PM by Gabriel Anast » Logged
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preachrsgirl
Learning

Posts: 7
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2010, 10:09:02 PM »
Thanks, Gabe, for your reply. I do appreciate it.
 My husband and I talked today about this, actually.(before I read your post) We still came to no real conclusion,though.
He did say that he understands my feelings and understands what his obligations as a husband are, and he says he truly wants to fulfill those and wants to make me happy.

Let me also say, that when we are "together"  it never seems to be out of obligation or duty. It does seem like he truly wants to. And my satisfaction is always very important. It's just not as often as I'd like.

The porn, I know for a fact, is not a problem anymore. But you are right about my jelousy. I do feel jealous that he had some desire to see the things he saw, but not much desire for me. And that jealousy often spills over into situations I know I should not be jealous over.

As far as his body belonging to me... I understand fully that he has certain obligations as a husband(as does he), but if he is not willing to fulfill these, I can't make him. So, should I, as a wife, just not bring it up again and be very happy and pleased when it does happen, or continue to try to discuss this with him? It seems to me that if I want him to desire me more,constantly bringing this up to him is only going to do the opposite.

As far as divorce goes, I don't even want to consider that an option. I want to make this work. I'm just confused about how to do that.
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Gabriel Anast
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Posts: 1588
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2010, 11:55:38 PM »
Yes... as concerns divorce... I am not saying that is the good option. No one wants it... its just that in the system that God designed (as I understand it from the Bible), the woman's recourse in a situation where her man does not provide for her is that she can leave him. It is implicit divorce on his part. Its not her divorcing him.

In a functioning body, it would not be divorce, per se, but the man (if unrepentant after going before the men of the congregation) would be put out of the body, and the elders would ask God that he be, "committed to Satan for the destruction of his flesh." In other words, that Satan be allowed to make him sick, even to death, if he remained unrepentant. Given a reasonable period of time (varying, probably, on many circumstances), the woman would then be free to marry whomever she desired as long as he was a believer.

I know this is hard... and honestly, if I had to bet, I would bet that you are not part of a body that has any real fear of God. Regardless of how much your church talks about believing the Bible or whatever, I have not really ever seen one that puts it into practice. I may be wrong, but if not, what you have is you, your husband, and God.

If your husband does not hear your expression of need in this manner, and meet that need even if / when he is not "interested," then put the matter before God. Regardless of what your church believes, what his marriage vows were, or anything else, if created order is what I believe it to be (from my reading of the Bible, and general observation) then when he took you as his woman, he took on certain obligations before God. Pray, with importunity that God would provide through your husband what you need in this area... or that He (if honest elders are lacking) will rebuke your husband in this matter.

I'd like to hear what happens.

Luke 18:1 And he spake a parable unto them [to this end], that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
   And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
   And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily.

--gabe

PS: The problem with this whole situation is that if you are not satisfied in the relationship... you will have a need in the flesh that you need to get fulfilled somewhere. This is what leads to fornication. I am not accusing, I am just saying that everyone knows how it is... temptations arise. If there is unfilled need when the temptation arises... its a mess. This is what corrupts the body of Christ. This is why it is a matter of such import. Put the matter before God, He will avenge you speedily.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2010, 12:05:22 AM by Gabriel Anast » Logged
Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify anything I post under the terms of the Design Science License
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