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[Monita]

We recently visited family and my SIl dropped the bomb that she was leaving her Dh.  They have never been married but have lived together and have 2 dc.

What she said:
 She feels that she is not really married to him since she has never taken his name.  She said that they just drifted apart. she needs to find herself,  he has been abusing alcohol, she is not in love with him and never was, he is not providing.  She feels that God is telling her to get out of her town that that place is not where she should be and that He is calling her to go to church.  She said that her life is  her kids and that she needed to focus on them.

Facts:
He adores her, is a good father spends a lot of time with his dc and they love and obey him , hard worker, drinks alot but she does too.

I am expected to help her..... as in counsel.  WE could be even taking her in with the 2 dc.    

From what I have seen he is frustrated that she shows little affection for him, treats him like a child, puts down his provision (vehicle, job). 

They live with my MIL and SIL wants him to move her out of her mothers house and to another town where he can get a better job.  They live there because her mom guilted her into it he never did want to live there.  He wants to stay in the town because his mom, dad, siblings are there and they are a very close family.

So,  the home they live in is owned by MIL but he helps with utilities and taxes, they get food stamps, and her brothers usually give her money.  I do not believe that he asks her to get this money from her brothers but she lets them know she is lacking and they help her. 

He says that she is money hungry when she complains of wanting to move.

I do not know what to say to her.  Honestly, I feel for him and my gut is taking his side but this is my Dh's sister and he has such a soft spot for her that I do not want to come off harsh or too  blunt but when I am listening all the words that come to me seem blunt and unkind.   We spoke on the phone yesterday and will probably again soon.  I do not know how to approach this.  I keep thinking that I need to give her some things to think about but what?  They advice that she is getting from everyone else is that he should be providing more, they deserve better, she needs to think of herself and the kids.

I am confessing though that I have a hard heart towards her and need God to help me with this first.

Thanks  for any help.

[Monita]

I am confessing though that I have a hard heart towards her and need God to help me with this first.

Ok, I think I need to repent of this thought.  I thought my heart was hard towards her but I have been feeling love and compassion  for her the past hours so I cannot say the above in good conscience anymore. 

  I guess a more acurate description is that I feel we are not being told the whole truth here my "spidey senses" are up which is causing a barrier.... being guarded I guess.  Man, I need wisdom here.

[Beth]

   what does your husband say? Does he see that her husband is providing for her? Tell your husband what you think about all this. Try to just lay out the facts as you see them. Then listen to what he has to say and go with that. Be sure and explain how you feel as "unemotionally" as you can.
   Another thing, is this your husbands younger sister? It seems that men have a soft spot for little sisters. Its understandable, we teach our sons to look out for them. So its just sort of natural. And even when they are grown up they still sort of get protective. In my opinion, it wouldn't be a good idea to get to try to get him to take sides. Just be really concerned for her best welfare and he'll see that.
   Personally, I think if her husband is caring for her, she should stay. Better for the kids and her too. Just an opinion though.

[Monita]

From a PM:

She told me plainly that in her opinion, what I was about to do was a sin and that while she loved me and would def. still be my friend etc., she couldn't condone or support what I was about to do.  I told her that I didn't expect her too, but I would do what I felt was best for me and my DD. 

This is what I wanted to tell her....well along those lines.
 

what does your husband say? Does he see that her husband is providing for her? Tell your husband what you think about all this. Try to just lay out the facts as you see them. Then listen to what he has to say and go with that. Be sure and explain how you feel as "unemotionally" as you can.

He feels that he is a good man, good dad and is providing but not enough in his opinion.  He should get a better job, 2 jobs whatever it takes to get a house, better car  etc.  He does not like living better than his sis.

Should I just tell her that I will be praying for her and my hope is it will all work out?  My Dh encourages a freindship and would like me to talk with her.  But he is not telling me anything specific to say.
I will talk to him about it though and maybe let him know that I am uncomfortable in giving any advice.   Or maybe ask him what advice I should give?
 
erased the last comment I made , it was not right.

[Beth]

That is exactly what I would do. Ask my husband what to say. Then pray for her with all sincerity. Just my opinion of course. But it really is what I would do.:-D

[Monita]

Thank you so much for your encouragement Beth.  Yes, I will pray for her and the whole situation.  Sometimes I panic when I feel the weight of an issue and this one, to me, is very weighty.   
I felt  scared for her as a  woman who needs the protection of a husband  and sorry for him a man who needs a helper for a wife and kids who need both parents but as boys especially their dad.   Also, that my opinion about man/wife and father/children possibly going against my Dh's.........I did not what this.  Now, I think that I was probably over analyzing the situation as usual ::)and just needed to focus on being my Dh's helpmeet.

I was reminded, by God I believe, that I have already shared my testimony with her of what happened after I left her brother years ago and then completely forgave him and began actively learning and trying  to be his helpmeet (even before I read helpmeet,lol).  She has witnessed my example and has seen me giving honor and submitting to my Dh even when she and everyone thought I was nuts and called me all sorts of things for "putting up" with him, her own brother lol.   

 A couple of years ago she even told me that she had alot of  respect for me and saw how much Dh and I love each other and was glad we had worked things out.   
So, I think I just need to just continue being her friend, encourage her in the Titus 2 way  and be an example.  She may come here to live, I don't know but if she does then I can more closely be an example I guess.   This would be a tough situation for all involved though.

I shared with my Dh what she said in the conversation and what I said to her and he had no comment.......which is normal so I think  what I said was ok. lol   I know he would tell me if it wasn't.


I would still love to hear any thoughts or advice.  Encouragement is nice too.

[denim&lace]

Monita,

If my dh were encouraging me to counsel my SIL in this area but wasn't giving me direction in how to counsel her I think I would start by googling "children of divorce statistics".  Here is one interesting site I came across just on a cursory search: http://www.divorcereform.org/all.html

I would talk to her about the fact that children whose parents have permanently separated or divorced:

1. have a much higher incidence of being incarcerated for violent crimes
2. are much more likely to commit suicide
3. have a far higher rate of divorce in their own marriages
4. usually leave the faith/religion they are raised in
5. will be at higher risk of teen pregnancy
6. are generally less educated
7. are more likely to struggle with poverty
8. will suffer more stress as children and are much more likely to suffer from mental illness as adults
9. are more likely to become abusive parents
10. (girls without their biological father in the house) enter puberty younger and usually engage in sexual activity younger.

If she claims to be a christian, I would encourage her to pray diligently before acting on this decision.  I would offer to pray with her.

I would tell her that I love her and her children and I sincerely want what is best for them...

If she were close enough I would introduce her to my divorced friend who regrets her decision very much...  and is terrified of growing old alone.

I would point out that your husband thinks her husband adores her, is a good father, and a good man.  I would give her encouragement to look at those things and offer to pray with her that God would work His will on her man.  That, if it is God's will, the man would find a better job or a 2nd job.  I would encourage her to do what God SAYS (in His word) is His will for a wife, rather than what she 'feels' God is 'saying to her'.

If would ask her what her plans are if she does leave.  How does she plan to improve her situation by moving?  Will she go to work?  What kind of work does she plan to do?  Where will she be leaving the kids while she works?  Where does she plan to live?  How will this be an improvement on her currant situation?  List the pro's and con's with her.    

I would talk to her about what her future plans for companionship are.  Would she seek to remarry?  Where would she look for a potential new mate?  Would she be getting background checks on any men that she would be exposing her children to before introducing them?  

Really these are all reasons for concern for her and everybody that loves her.  Valid questions for reasonable people.  My counsel would truly be out of concern for her and her children, and I would take her answers and pray about them before responding to them.  

I've prayed for you today.  

[Beth]

Those divorce statistics are so alarming! Most of all it makes me sad. Yet so grateful for the grace and mercy of God in our marriage!

[denim&lace]

They are alarming, and I can tell  you that reading them AFTER you've made that decision and can't go back is heart wrenching.  Makes one VERY thankful for the grace of God. (who can defy statistics at will!) 

[Monita]

Thank you D&L for this wonderfully practical post.  I have been praying about this, what to say, what questions to ask her, what questions to get her to ask herself, so your post was a blessing!  Thank you for paying too.

I have not spoken to her again this week put will be speaking to her next week, Lord willing.  I have to call her about something else and am anticipating the subject to come up again. 

[Monita]

I just got off the phone with my SIL.  There are so many things going on here and I just hope and pray that the Lord will bless what was said.  She is dealing with so many lies, I had no idea.

First, she does say she is a believer and that she has been praying about this.  She is upset about her mother coming back from holiday fri. and feels that is why she has been so distressed.   She wants to get out from under her mothers house.   Her mom has caused a lot of hurt and is actually a  fit for the narcissistic personality, IMO.


She said that she has no confidence in her man.   She said they are just very different people and want different things in life, but that he is a good father and a good man but just perhaps not for her.  He wants her to have fun and go out with him and loosen up. ( she says she has to think about the kids)   He wants her to stop worrying about money all the time.   (she says someone has to be the grownup and think about the future)    We talked about the statistics of boys who don't have their daddies around and reminded her how much they love him and how blessed they are to have a dad that enjoys being with them.   (she said that he does not keep a close enough eye on them so she does not let him take them out) 
They did decide that they are going to try to work things out for now though and see what happens.

I talked to her about the role of a wife and husband according to the Bible and we talked about divorce.  She said that she feared that since she was married to another man and got a divorce that she has no "peace" about this relationship she is in.  She feels guilt.  Her first husband left to go fishing (his job) right after their wedding and never returned to her.  He came back to shore and stayed away at his mothers , so after months she divorced him legally.  They had no children.    She is having a lot of guilt about that and has not married this man she is with now because of this. 
(I could really use some verses and threads about this situation for her to read.)


I just listened and when she was done talking suggested that she needed to put her trust in God and not fret but to have faith.  Told her that I wanted to encourage her in this.  I told her that if he indeed was not providing  for her and the children then perhaps she should tell him to leave but that she better be sure that he is indeed not providing according to Gods standards of provisions.  I  suggested that the things we think we need in this world and the status that we are told we should have are not of God and that the things she was talking about and the ways she was feeling were more of Oprah and the world and not really of God, I encouraged her to put aside those thoughts for now and to see what God says about all this in His word.  I told her that she needed to stop trying to be his and her families provider and protector and safety net that was/is not her job.  That God wants to deal with him about being a provider and that she needed to just get out of the way.  She needed to be full of  faith and trust God to provide for her through this man and that if he refuses then to trust God to find another way but to stop striving.  Encouraged her to  pray and perhaps fast and trust God that He was real and could do it His way and that I would and am helping her in this way.  For her to try to be quiet in her spirit, a keeper at home, honor this man and wait on God for now.  I shared some bible examples with her and told her that I would be sending her verses to look up and some threads from this site so that she could read (she does not have a computer) .  She said that she would love to read them. 

So, any ideas about which threads  and verses would be good?   I was also wondering if verses and threads for him would be appropriate.    

I do not know if all I said was good or right but I hope.    I've been praying about it for days and I know others have prayed so I can just continue to pray for the Lord to bless what was said and that she will hear Him. 

Thank you for your encouragement here.

[denim&lace]

Monita,
Sounds like you have really prayed this over before talking to her.  I commend you for that.

As far as the divorce and remarriage thing...  Here it is.  If a man commits murder, there is no way he can bring that person back that he killed.  He can either trust God completely for forgiveness and salvation, or he can continue to strive in his spirit about the evil deed he committed.  The first will bring glory to God, the later will bring bitterness and destruction for the man.

If a woman is divorced and remarried, there is no way she can bring that previous marriage back from the dead.  She is divorced, she can not un-divorce somebody.  She can either trust Christ for forgiveness and salvation from that sin, or she can strive in her spirit over the evil deed she committed.  The first will bring glory to God, the later will bring bitterness and destruction for the woman. 

You can not go back and fix a sin.  It is done. Go and sin no more. 

I wonder over the fact that this is exactly the circumstances that Christ gave these instructions in, yet so many women still strive over that past marriage and then the marriage they are in falls into ruin because of the woman's guilt.  Jesus' instructions bring so much peace if you will follow them.  In today's lingo it is said, "You can't keep doing the same thing and expect different results."  Another divorce or separation will just compound the guilt, not make it better. 
 
I've been there, done that, and this is the answer I came to. 
~L

[Monita]

Thank you for this D&L.  I will be printing it and other stuff out and will mail it off to her tomorrow.  I will pray for her to read the verses/ threads and have peace and understanding becasue I think they will all be a huge pill for her to swollow and sound foriegn and seem crazy at first.......I'm sure I will seem crazy too.    She will either believe God or not.....I hope she will believe.

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