When to talk, when to shut up

Aura

Adept

Posts: 219

« on: February 26, 2010, 01:58:36 PM »

I have spent nearly all day scanning through all 14 pages here. I've gained a lot of good perspectives and some great advice, but I still have this question.

First, dh and I had a conversation last night that started out great and ended up terrible. SC, your article "Don't tug on Superman's cape" was very applicable to my situation. I really blew it, and I couldn't figure out at the time what in the world the problem was! But I think from his perspective, I wasn’t trusting him to be the provider of the family—not my intentions at all! But I think that’s how he took it.

Basically, we’re getting (another) sizeable tax return this year as well as some additional unexpected income. Dh was talking to me last night about his plans for it. I thought he was honestly wanting my thoughts, but I think he was actually looking for affirmation for his decision. And my thoughts didn’t line up with his.

So, with that in mind, there is one particular issue that weighs on me heavier every day, and I don't know whether I should confide how I'm feeling to my dh, especially in light of our conversation last night.

Here’s the issue in a nutshell: I desperately want a fenced yard. We moved into a new subdivision almost 2 years ago. I was under the impression that we agreed that if we moved, we would have a fenced yard so the kids would have a safe area to play outside.

I get stressed every time I let the kids go out and play. Not only are they completely unprotected (IMO) from anyone that wants to walk onto our property—and we’ve had several break-ins in our neighborhood since we’ve moved here—but there is also nothing to stop the 4-legged bad guys from coming up. I’ve had stray dogs literally stroll through my back yard. I’ve seen foxes around, which I love watching, but I’m concerned about rabies. I can’t keep the kids locked up inside all the time, but I can’t always be outside with them, either. I cannot stress how important it is to me to have a relatively safe place for the kids to play outside! And I have not communicated this to dh.

Whenever we’ve talked about this in the past, I’ve always let it go. I did NOT even mention or hint towards a fence in our conversation last night, but now, this will make 3 different sources of additional income where any one of them would have been more than enough to cover a fence, and still no fence. Yet, we’ve managed to take spend money that would have covered the cost of a fence in ways that I felt were unnecessary, but dh wanted to do them.

Dh knows that I’d like the kids to have a fenced area to play in. That’s it. When he’s said, we can’t do this right now, it will have to wait. I’ve cheerfully said, okay. I have never expressed to him the depth of my feelings on this issue because I was trying to honor him and not make him feel like he wasn’t providing for the family or making the right decisions, but now I’m wondering if I just muddied the water instead of being completely honest on how I felt. He knew I wanted it, that should be enough, right?

Yes, I did have a fence in the back of my mind last night, but our difference of opinion was on how to SAVE the money—not how to spend it.

So, do I continue to keep my mouth shut, especially seeing how I’ve already tripped up Superman as he was trying to leap a building with a single bound, or do I confide in him how extremely important this issue is to me?

And it is just a fence. It isn’t something we can take with us if we had to move. It isn’t something that could be used to put food on the table if we needed it. Am I not trusting dh or God by being worried about the kids playing outside?

On the other hand, this is our children’s safety we’re talking about. We’re already planning on my getting a gun, so obviously, he feels the need for us to protect ourselves and especially for me to able to protect the kids and myself when he’s not around.

Where is that line between honoring your husband and confiding in him your fears? And what about when you mess up, like I did? If I hadn’t screwed up last night (which, of course, was not the only time I’ve misread him), then it probably wouldn’t be such an issue. But I DID, so now what?


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sohnnenstrahl

Adept

Posts: 121

Re: When to talk, when to shut up

« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2010, 11:20:03 PM »

I think it's possible for you to communicate your complete support for whatever decision he makes while giving him all the information you have that he could use.

Could you lay out your thoughts to him about the kids' safety and the various scenarios, in a way that lets him know that you will be happy if the fence does not get built? This of course necessitates you deciding to be happy if the fence does not get built.

This evening I screwed up. I admitted it, tried to backtrack and start over with dh and the subject of the conversation, the decision being made. It didn't work, and I prayed for a way to be right, and God opened the door.

I mentioned an opportunity to him that I knew he'd want to hear about. This is true; he did want to hear about it. It was an opportunity to plan a trip to Colorado to visit with some loved ones who will be there for a limited time, traveling from the east. I did not know whether he wanted to seize this opportunity, but I knew he'd want the chance to decide. So I mentioned it to him, but I did not check my heart and attitude first, and the way I presented it carried my obvious wish that he would take us; that we could make reservations for the campground.

When he reviewed the pros and cons aloud, there I was, bursting with anticipation, just like the kids. There he was, with the burden of deciding whether this was how we should spend the money it was expected to cost and how we should spend his work vacation time, and counting all the other kinds of costs. He said yes. Then, when I was about to click through the payment process to make reservations, it hit me that throughout the conversation there were signs from him that, even though he might well have come to the same conclusion given a lot more time to decide, he wasn't exactly comfortable with making the reservations just yet.

So I stopped and asked, "Is this really something you WANT us to do, for sure? Or would you like to put off the decision? Maybe you really don't want to go, but you've seen how excited we are? Have I been pushy?" Dh does not like going back and forth on things; he likes to go forward, so now I was on the verge of irritating him. He urged me to make the reservations tonight. I prayed fast. A few things with the kiddos came up that needed our attention, and one of them was overseeing dd's run up and down the road, and I prayed while doing that. When we got back, before sitting down to the computer I approached dh.

"I'm so sorry I was so anxious. Really, going on the trip is not important compared with you leading me and us. I do not want to be pressuring you, even with my exuberance over a possibility. I know you might have other ideas for that money and the time off of work. Instead of me making the reservations now, would you want to let me know at your convenience if you decide that we should go? Because if you feel it's not something we should do, for whatever reason at all, then I do NOT want to go." He was absolutely cool with that. I am SO thankful God stopped me, and then gave me a way out, or around, or whatever it was.

This is something I need a lot of work in: giving my husband the information he asks for or that I know he wants, without soaking it all in my desire or opinion about the decision he would make. How God stopped me before making the reservations was by flashing a sign before me in my mind: "Is this trip/visit more important than your husband acting in his capacity as head of you and the family?" It was an attention getter. It was a definite, instant cure of being giddy about the possibility of going.

You want a fence. You believe that it is best for the family for various reasons. You haven't given your husband all the information he could probably use. I think if you decide to be happy either way, and make it clear to him that you'll be happy either way, then you should not be afraid of spelling out your points in favor of a fence. However, if he decides against a fence, then you could already have thought of ways to keep the kids safe. And you could ask him for help with this. It might well mean always accompanying the children when they go outside. It's possible; we've done it.

God bless you.


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denim&lace

Master

Posts: 1721

Re: When to talk, when to shut up

« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2010, 12:57:57 AM »

Men speak on average 6073 words a day.
Women speak on average 8805.
A difference of 2732 words...

I've discovered, with my husband, more action and less words mean more.

In our house, this is how I would proceed:

I would measure the yard and plan the fence (how many gates, where the gates go, etc.) and then I would make a trip to Home Depot or Lowes and check out the different types of materials. I would put together a cost analysis of the materials needed to build the fence. I would probably price out a couple of different types of material and I would put together a total materials cost for the two types (chain link vs wood panel). From there I would show my plan to somebody at Lowes and ask for a price estimate on installation (my husband would often prefer to have something installed for various reasons than to do it ourselves). Once I had all the pricing I would prepare to approach my husband on the subject, picking a time when he's relaxed and happy. I would say something along these lines:

I would like to have the yard fenced to help me keep the kids safe when I can not be outside with them. (I may tell him my reasons for this perceived need if I don't think they are evident to him at this point.) I have priced a couple of different options on materials and I have gotten a quote on what it would cost to have it installed versus us doing it. I think we can do it, and I'd love to spend that time working with you and the kids putting it in. Here's the information. (handing him the cost analysis) I know it is a significant cost, and I know it may take some time for us to save the money if you decide this is something we need to do. Would you like a cup of tea? Grin

And then I would shut-up.

Now, my guy is a command man. When he makes his decision(usually within the hour), he will tell me and I won't have to wonder if the fence is ever going to happen. He's also committed to doing what he tells me he's going to do, so if he decided to put in a fence, he will add it to his mental list of large expenditures to plan for, and he will make it happen as soon as he can. Because he has the cost analysis laying on his desk: a) he knows I am serious in my desire/need for a fence... it isn't just a passing thought I entertained, and b) he is reminded regularly that it is something to plan for and will not forget the need with visions of a big screen dancing in his head when a windfall hits. Wink

I know that not all husbands are like mine... things would work differently in different households. So this is just an example of how one woman would let her desires/needs known to her husband in a way that allows him to lead in whatever direction he chooses. He may decide to use the windfall, he may decide to plan and save, or he may decide not to get a fence at all. But I definitely let him know if I had a need or desire. Otherwise, I would be getting in his way of providing for me if it is something that he decides we need.


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SC lady

Moderator
Master

Posts: 1611

Ephesians 5:2

Re: When to talk, when to shut up

« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2010, 09:07:10 AM »

ROTFL!!! I have to laugh at myself on this one!
Many parts of the OP I could have written.

I agree with D&L and sohnnenstrahl about letting dh know in a way that makes it easy for him to say yes (whatever that is for your man) and then resting in the result . . .

Oh, and the reason I'm laughing? I'm STILL waiting on a fence Roll Eyes

It's become a bit of a joke for us.
Duke just sings when I mention it.

Quote

Oh, give me land, lots of land under starry skies above,
Don't fence me in.
Let me ride through the wide open country that I love,
Don't fence me in.
Let me be by myself in the evenin' breeze,
And listen to the murmur of the cottonwood trees,
Send me off forever but I ask you please,
Don't fence me in.

This, with fenced yards all around us Cheesy

I guess at some point, I determined that enjoying my husband and his cowboy ways were more important than a fence. I figured women on prairie learned how to keep their children safe from harm, so I just got creative.

Outside time is monitored, children are taught safety measures, buddy system, etc. It would have been nice to have a fence -- my children would have gotten more sunshine, the foot path through our yard would have been eliminated . . .

But I also have to wonder if there wasn't/isn't a good reason for this. My mama-dar (radar for mamas) has always been keenly tuned to the whereabouts of the kids (unless they are with their dad). Said watchfulness might have kept a creepy neighbor from trying stuff (who knows?). Maybe for me a fence would have given a false sense of security. Possibly NOT having one has kept my kids more safe . . .

It figures God would use a cowboy to save the day Grin

Quote

I want to ride to the ridge where the west commences
And gaze at the moon till I lose my senses
And I can't look at hovels and I can't stand fences
Don't fence me in.


« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 09:11:24 AM by SC lady »	Logged

JesiRaine

Learning

Posts: 36

Re: When to talk, when to shut up

« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2010, 10:21:33 AM »

Aura,

I know so much how you feel! I've had a hard time not having a fence in our yard -- I want to keep a lot of things out from here, including neighbor kids who used to assume they could be here every time my kids went outside. I had to at least be there, so I felt like I couldn't let them outside unless I was there!

We live in a neighborhood with a lot of fences, but only posts with rabbit fencing strung between. Doesn't offer much in protection. I've wanted a fence in one area of our yard for the last three years, to keep the dogs next door from our kids -- I've been scared that they would be able to bite our kids through the fence if they got too close, or even jump over or through the fence! But we've never been able to afford a privacy fence for even a portion of the yard.

We also live in an area with many dangers -- a lot of other dogs get out of yards and into ours, foxes, coyotes... Plus the dangers of our own animals -- we had a rooster one year that hated kids. He eventually ended up in the stew pot for the kids -- they got the last word with him!

Anyway, just having a fence with our kids never helped as much as I would have liked. It acts as a bit of a boundary, but not completely safe at all. We've still had to teach our kids what to do if they see a strange dog in the yard (happens often) or a fox or even an angry chicken! I've been grateful that they've had the chance to be taught these lessons early, in order to know what to do if they are ever confronted with other dogs or wild animals when not at home.

One of our big methods is also a buddy system -- no one is ever left totally alone outside. We've also taught the kids to have an awareness of what is around them. Mommy is always within hearing distance, so if a situation gets too big, I can be there quickly!

I've also had folks walk into our yard many times -- strangers who evidently thought they had every right to be there. But our kids know to just treat them like the wild animals!

I try to be outside doing chores as often as possible when the kids are out, hanging laundry, cleaning outside, animal related chores, gardening... Plus, if I clean inside briefly in the mornings (and it's a great motivator -- can't go outside until we clean up in here!) then no one gets the house messy all day! I'll often serve lunch outside picnic style -- everyone loves it and there's nothing to clean inside! And my kids love heading outside for quiet rest with a book and an apple while mommy gets to relax with her own book and a cup of tea.

It's been pretty neat to be able to be outside often -- without being fenced in and only be able to see our yard!


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denim&lace

Master

Posts: 1721

Re: When to talk, when to shut up

« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2010, 01:24:14 PM »

SC Lady, you make me laugh!

I grew up on a farm with no fenced yard. Well, it had a 5 strand, barbed wire fence around the back to separate the pasture from the house. By the time I was 6 I was allowed to roam the 20 acres that our house sat on at will. We had all kinds of critters from fox and skunks to rattlesnakes and coyotes running around, but I was taught to avoid wild animals so I was fine. By the time I was 8 I was rounding up cattle off of 1,200+ acres. And at around 10 or 11 my Daddy turned me loose with a .22 cal rifle and a hunting dog. I once had a boy come to call and my Momma told him, "Oh, she's out with the rifle... she's been gone a couple hours so she should be back soon..." I was 14. I came walking up with 6 squirrels tossed over one shoulder, each with one hole through their head, and the rifle slung over the other with a hound dog at my heels... Happy. The boy was a bit unnerved though. Grin

Fences make me crazy.

Fences are poor barriers to coyotes and poorer still against fox. They teach children to be less aware of their surroundings, and any bad guy can open a gate if what he wants what is on the other side... Kids automatically think that if somebody is in their fenced yard, Momma must know. I've experienced this. But, fences will keep toddlers out of the street, so I understand the desire for one when the babies are little.

There are ways of living with or without a fence. Just ask me, I've borne the burden of chain link boundaries for 12 years! Cheesy


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Aura

Adept

Posts: 219

Re: When to talk, when to shut up

« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2010, 05:03:27 PM »

Thank you all for your advice and experiences. I'm still praying about what to do, but it's nice to know that I'm not the only one with these kinds of thoughts. And you all gave a lot of good ideas even if we DON'T get a fence.

Quote

Fences are poor barriers to coyotes and poorer still against fox. They teach children to be less aware of their surroundings, and any bad guy can open a gate if what he wants what is on the other side... Kids automatically think that if somebody is in their fenced yard, Momma must know. I've experienced this. But, fences will keep toddlers out of the street, so I understand the desire for one when the babies are little.

This is a very good caution. Thanks for reminding me. Even if we do get a fence, we still need to be diligent about our children's safety


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