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[milothebean]

This never made sense to me, because when (if ever) was the apostate Roman church persecuted?

One interesting waymark on the timeline is the description of the next pope, given in Archbishop Malachy's Prophecy:

"During the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church, the seat will be occupied by
Peter the Roman, who will feed his sheep in many tribulations:
and when these things are finished, the city of seven hills will be destroyed,
and the formidable Judge will judge His people.
The End."

Andy'sdad

[Gabriel Anast]

not only that, but if the "city on seven hills" is referring to Rome, then I don't think the understanding of the Biblical prophecy (city on seven hills) is understood. In the Bible, the seven hills are seven men (great men) that by the things they do / who they are, they "form" or "make" this nation / bloodline entity. Anyway, it seems to me that the prophecy could be true if it is understood in correct Biblical idiom... but if so, then it doesn't mean the Roman Catholic church like the one that made the prophesy thought.

See, I do think the "city on seven hills" will be destroyed... the anti-christ being the "eighth" and "of the seventh"... not himself being a righteous pillar of that people, but being a great, final leader of that people and being "of the seventh." I have not understood who the seven are, but I assume they include Moses, Joshua, David and Solomon... possibly Zerubabel... not sure about the others. I have often wondered if George Washington is not the seventh... and the anti-christ then, "of the seventh" in this way.

The last part of the Malachy prophesy saying, "and when these things are finished, the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the formidable Judge will judge His people." This is exactly the progression of the Revelation. The tribulation first, then, finally, the destruction of mystery Babylon... which I believe is indeed "His people"... specifically the ten tribes as the first beast and Joseph alone as the second beast... the two working together as mystery Babylon.

I guess I am not saying that I think the prophecy is true... I have no idea who Malachy even was... I am just saying that depending on how you interpret the symbols, the prophecy in many ways does seem to mirror my understanding of the Bible. The question then is, who is this "Holy Roman Church" and who is "Peter the Roman"?

The obvious answers are, "The Vatican" and "the next Pope" in which case I guess I would assert that the "sign" might come true... but the prophet is leading after a false god and so, leave it well enough alone.

--gabe

[Bear]

Some thoughts regarding the mark of the beast...

Whatever the mark may be... Do you think it has to be something obviously, no-doubt against God, and that being clear to ANYBODY? So that the person choosing it thus declares his/her informed, conscious choice against God. It seems to me so because:

    1. The punishment for taking the mark will be great (Rev 19:20, etc.).
Legally such ultimate punishment cannot be prescribed justly (James 4:17) if a consent to take the mark was made simply because of young age, poor mental ability, misunderstanding, propaganda, or deception.
I also don't see how it may be forced or given to an unconscious person, say, in prison. It might be more like a deliberate application for citizenship.
To deserve damnation, there has to be a willful act of "receiving", some universal prior knowledge available to each person - Christian, non-believer, one who never heard the Bible - that taking the mark is evil and is a final rejection of God. Perhaps taking the mark will be accompanied by oath to some evil or a verbal/written statement of allegiance to the beast over God; that will prove and document the person's clear intent for the later God's judgment court case.

   2. Taking the mark is mentioned along with the worship of the beast or his image (Rev 19:20; 20:4).
Even if it will be an implant/imprint, EACH person will probably know the mark is more than a passport or travel permission. It will be an identifying expression of loyalty. But currently many people might not associate in their conscience a traveler's ID chip with the worship. I think it's safe to say we still didn't see a clear declaration of the beast or his image to be worshiped.

   3. The mark will be used also as a permission to buy/sell (Rev 13:17). This restriction is not established globally yet.
Yes, it could be that the mark will be issued before the buy/sell restriction. But then the mark must already be a well-worked-out technology, something that is uniform world-wide. The current IDs differ between different places and are not universal yet.
I do see the latest legislation (protecting the credit card users benefits and punishing the credit score if the card is canceled/closed) may be a step to lure in and track more people, and eventually force the electronic buying/selling as the only way. Perhaps the cashless banking will merge with the ID technology and produce the mark at that stage?

Thanks.

[Gabriel Anast]

Some thoughts regarding the mark of the beast...

Whatever the mark may be... Do you think it has to be something obviously, no-doubt against God, and that being clear to ANYBODY? So that the person choosing it thus declares his/her informed, conscious choice against God. It seems to me so because:

    1. The punishment for taking the mark will be great (Rev 19:20, etc.).
Legally such ultimate punishment cannot be prescribed justly (James 4:17) if a consent to take the mark was made simply because of young age, poor mental ability, misunderstanding, propaganda, or deception.

I almost completely agree. I will say this, though. As far as God is concerned, I think He makes all His work "plausibly deniable." In other words, that it is obvious to some that when God says to Pharoah:

[...] if thou wilt not let my people go, behold, I will send swarms of flies upon thee, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people, and into thy houses: and the houses of the Egyptians shall be full of swarms of flies, and also the ground whereon they are. And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the LORD in the midst of the earth. And I will put a division between my people and thy people: to morrow shall this sign be.

...and then...

And the LORD did so; and there came a grievous swarm of flies into the house of Pharaoh, and into his servants' houses, and into all the land of Egypt: the land was corrupted by reason of the swarm of flies.

...that it is indeed Him doing it. But... it is possible that it was just a lucky guess on Moses' part.

Seems pretty obvious in context, that it was God that sent these flies... however Pharoah didn't seem to think it was God, or at least that He meant what He was saying, and people have for centuries explained how this was easy to explain naturally, etc... and I think this is the way God intended it.

God says in the Bible that it will be a "terrible beast" but to Americans it looks like a government that is protecting their interests and money and way of life... "That's not a terrible beast... that's our salvation!"

God says in the Bible that those that ride this beast will be a whore that shares her fornication with all the nations of the world, but to Americans it looks like us benevolently teaching the world about medicine, good religion (Christianity... bought and paid for by the state and properly levied taxes), and education systems that make people good, productive citizens.

It is a strong delusion to those that love unrighteousness.

I also don't see how it may be forced or given to an unconscious person, say, in prison. It might be more like a deliberate application for citizenship.

Yes, if a developmentally retarded person is required to accept the mark, I think he will not be sent to hell. However, if an unconscious person is given the mark... I think the Bible speaks plainly about this (when they regain consciousness) in Matthew 18. Cut it out. Reject it.

To deserve damnation, there has to be a willful act of "receiving", some universal prior knowledge available to each person - Christian, non-believer, one who never heard the Bible - that taking the mark is evil and is a final rejection of God. Perhaps taking the mark will be accompanied by oath to some evil or a verbal/written statement of allegiance to the beast over God; that will prove and document the person's clear intent for the later God's judgment court case.

Yes, I completely agree with this, as does, I believe, the testimony about the mark... it seems to be an active participation... using the mark or the number or the name. Just because you have been given an SSN does not mean you use it. Most children have SSN's and do not use them... their parents use them on their behalf until they are old enough to use them themselves... 18 years of age is usually the legal minimum.

Taking the mark is mentioned along with the worship of the beast or his image (Rev 19:20; 20:4).
Even if it will be an implant/imprint, EACH person will probably know the mark is more than a passport or travel permission. It will be an identifying expression of loyalty. But currently many people might not associate in their conscience a traveler's ID chip with the worship. I think it's safe to say we still didn't see a clear declaration of the beast or his image to be worshiped.

Yes, I agree in general... however, I would also say that the "mood" is strong in that direction... and practice makes perfect. You can gingerly set your foot in a trap and still not trigger the catch... but onlookers will either account it as stupidity or as extreme skill. I am in serious doubt that the latter is the case with most people. It seems to me rather that we are just witnessing the moment before the catch is jostled.

[added later] For instance... lets say a person has all his wealth in accounts that are predicated by use of the number, and lives in the city so that to travel even a few blocks (in a taxi for instance) would require showing ID if the mark was instantiated... this person will become homeless in an instant if he refuses the mark... or, more likely, since his money is in the system and his livelihood is in the system and all he knows is city life... he'll just take the mark.

What I am saying is, now is the time to remake your lifestyle so that it is out of the system. So that (as much as possible) whether the mark is effected or not, life just won't change that much. The easiest way to do this is to move away from urban centers... the rest will be self explanatory. As concerns those are "in the trap" when the abomination that makes desolate occurs (which, as I have said, I now believe is the issuing of the mark) the message is quite clear: Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
   And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

You have one moment, one chance to get out. It is the moment you hear the news.

The mark will be used also as a permission to buy/sell (Rev 13:17). This restriction is not established globally yet.

I would disagree and say that indeed it is established globally... but that it is not 100% effective... and probably never will be. I would say that probably about 98% of transactions worldwide are dependent on (predicated on) the use of a national identification number or a social number of some kind. I would like to see actual statistics... but I also think I am in the ballpark on this one.

Yes, it could be that the mark will be issued before the buy/sell restriction. But then the mark must already be a well-worked-out technology, something that is uniform world-wide. The current IDs differ between different places and are not universal yet.

You should do more research on this... the ID's vary almost none in what they assert / allow and how they work on a policy basis. The WTO has seen to that over the last 20 years. All that needs to happen now is for the issuing body to be made uniform... that is the whole idea behind PASSID and RealID. Ultimately some department in the US government will either oversee or regulate all ID's issued on the planet. It is already so close to this (again, through the WTO) that it is not really deniable.

I do see the latest legislation (protecting the credit card users benefits and punishing the credit score if the card is canceled/closed) may be a step to lure in and track more people, and eventually force the electronic buying/selling as the only way. Perhaps the cashless banking will merge with the ID technology and produce the mark at that stage?

I don't think a cashless society is required or even possible... the "beast" itself relies on cash for certain transactions... illegal drugs, human trafficking, under the table bank reconciliations, etc. Not only that, but I do not think the prophecy implies that taking the mark is even required to be condemnable.

Once the mark is issued, even one that does not have the mark, but uses the number is condemned. In other words, it seems that although the mark, the number and the name will be very closely associated, they will not be perfectly congruous. There will still be loopholes, etc... just be careful and observant and learn where they are... practice makes perfect. I think that there will be ways to not use the number the name or the mark and still meet basic needs... heh... one way is preparation before hand... but there will be others as well.

--gabe

[Gabriel Anast]

Interesting prediction of the near future by one of the worlds most powerful people:

http://www.thinq.co.uk/2010/8/5/no-anonymity-future-web-says-google-ceo/

[Beth]

Interesting prediction of the near future by one of the worlds most powerful people:

http://www.thinq.co.uk/2010/8/5/no-anonymity-future-web-says-google-ceo/

Yikes! That is a bit unsettling....I wonder what that all will bring about? I mean, he's right...so much information on the web.... they have us all pegged as to who and what we believe even....pictures, blogs, chatrooms, e-mail....no where to hide!
Not that I have anything to hide, but what if it became illegal to be a christian? It could  and according to the bible it will happen! In Germany at one time not so long ago, it was illegal to be a Jew. They didn't have the web then....and it was very hard to hide! Now they have the web.... no annonimity! Where ya gonna go??

[Gabriel Anast]

Beth, I think that's not the entire point. The point that Schmidt was making was that governments are now looking seriously at implementing a "name service" for people and that universal sign-ons like Open ID, Facebook's "connect," google, yahoo, or wordpress login, etc. will not only be the norm, but will soon become mandatory. See the main Open ID page for how Open ID works... its brilliant and greatly simplifies things... at the cost of a little privacy.

"In a world of asynchronous threats," said Schmidt, "it is too dangerous for there not to be some way to identify you. We need a [verified] name service for people. Governments will demand it."

If online access is proxied through an active denial system that requires name service authentication through one of a few government bonded ID managers, believe me,  the offline world will be managed through the same system.

In other words: If you cannot get to any website or even your email without having first registered yourself with a single global database that maintains unique codes for each person registered (just like domain registries do for domain names), and then you have to authenticate through a government approved ID proxy (the type of service that Open ID, Facebook connect, google, yahoo, wordpress, etc already provide, although it is certainly not government mandated), THEN this would by nature and expectation extend to all networks, including banking, transaction processing of all kinds, ID verification, etc.

There is no "online" vs. "offline" anymore... unless you are some cave dwelling throw-back in the sticks somewhere. Hmmmmm.

--gabe

[Beth]

uh....I guess I'm a bit ignorant of such things....glad somebody knows the implications. Sigh.... Ignorance can be bliss sometimes.

Beth, I think that's not the entire point. The point that Schmidt was making was that governments are now looking seriously at implementing a "name service" for people and that universal sign-ons like Open ID, Facebook's "connect," google, yahoo, or wordpress login, etc. will not only be the norm, but will soon become mandatory. See the main Open ID page for how Open ID works... its brilliant and greatly simplifies things... at the cost of a little privacy.

"In a world of asynchronous threats," said Schmidt, "it is too dangerous for there not to be some way to identify you. We need a [verified] name service for people. Governments will demand it."

If online access is proxied through an active denial system that requires name service authentication through one of a few government bonded ID managers, believe me,  the offline world will be managed through the same system.

In other words: If you cannot get to any website or even your email without having first registered yourself with a single global database that maintains unique codes for each person registered (just like domain registries do for domain names), and then you have to authenticate through a government approved ID proxy (the type of service that Open ID, Facebook connect, google, yahoo, wordpress, etc already provide, although it is certainly not government mandated), THEN this would by nature and expectation extend to all networks, including banking, transaction processing of all kinds, ID verification, etc.

There is no "online" vs. "offline" anymore... unless you are some cave dwelling throw-back in the sticks somewhere. Hmmmmm.

--gabe

[herbalmom]

Another possible method- if you can't work, you'll have a hard time taking care of your family, etc. Of course, with National IDs, it's only a stepping stone to global IDs & it being necessary for every purchase, etc. 

Got this in an email from Congressman Ron Paul today:

This is getting to be like a bad movie.
You know the ones where the villain, dead and buried more times than you can count, somehow mysteriously reappears in a place you don’t expect him?
Well, here comes... a new fight over a biometric national ID card -- and if you don’t have the card, you can’t work.
Right now, freedom-stealing statists Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) and Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY), banding together with other statists from both parties, are scheming to sneak a massive power grab into a new “immigration reform” bill.
This bill is a statist’s dream -- “amnesty” for illegal immigrants and a biometric ID card for virtually everyone else.
That’s right. Instead of controlling the border and enforcing the rule of law, these statists want to control you.
That’s why it’s vital you sign the petitions to your Senators IMMEDIATELY.
You see, a National ID scheme -- complete with biometric tracking technology -- is embedded in the new “Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill” being pushed by Senators Graham and Schumer, as well as other Big Government members from both parties.
And if passed, the “Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill” would require a new National ID card that would:
*** Include biometric identification information, such as fingerprints, retinal scans or scans of veins on the back of hands. Depending on the technology used, the ID card could easily be used as a tracking device;

*** Be required for all U.S. workers regardless of place of birth, and make it illegal for anyone to hold a job in the United States who doesn't obtain the ID card;

*** Require all employers to purchase an “ID scanner” to verify the ID cards with the federal government. Every time any citizen applies for a job, the government would know -- and you can bet it’s only a matter of time until “ID scans” will be required to make even routine purchases, as well.
Of course, the most dangerous part of the bill is the biometric tracking technology which would allow federal bureaucrats to track our every move.
Allowing our government to have this much “prying power” in our lives will ultimately result in the TOTAL loss of freedom.
This is exactly the type of battle that often decides whether a country remains free, or continues down a slide toward tyranny.
Government goon squads with all our personal information -– information they do not need and constitutionally should not have –- is a recipe for disaster for our nation.
You see, once “well-meaning” government bureaucrats know exactly how we live our lives, it won’t be long until they try to run them.
In fact, it will only be a matter of time until they spend their workdays making sure you and I don’t go anywhere we “shouldn’t,” buy anything we “shouldn’t,” read anything we “shouldn’t,” eat anything we “shouldn’t” or smoke anything we “shouldn’t.”
You see, this fight isn’t really about immigration.
Whatever you think of that fight, it’s simply being used as cover.
If there is good news in this fight, thanks to the help of grassroots citizens like you, it’s that we’ve been able to render the Big Government politicians’ REAL ID nearly toothless in more than two dozen states.
Now, the statists are growing nervous.
They know Americans are FED UP with their mad rush to take over our health care system, expand Federal Reserve power and regulate and control every aspect of our lives.
We’re FED UP with trillion dollar deficits.
We’re SICK AND TIRED of radical schemes like Cap and Tax.
We’re done with their out of control spending on foreign affairs and nation building all over the globe.
They also see that our anger is producing results. Many of their schemes are failing.
Rallies are growing in strength. Candidates are rising up in state after state to say “Enough!”
So the statists are trying a bipartisan “backdoor” scheme to impose more control on American citizens.
They’re hoping that after months of Big Media mouthpieces decrying the “poisonous and partisan politics” in Washington, the American people will jump for joy at the sight of a Democrat from liberal New York and a Republican from conservative South Carolina “working together to solve our immigration mess.”
Well, you and I know better.
After all, liberty activists can hardly find two Senators with bigger vendettas against the liberty movement than Senator Chuck Schumer and Senator Lindsey Graham.
Senator Graham himself has very publicly denounced the limited government R3VOLUTION launched by Dr. Ron Paul.
He’s stated that we’re not welcome in HIS party.
And now, he’s proving why the one who should not be welcome in any party that values freedom is LINDSEY GRAHAM.
That’s why it’s up to you and me to FIGHT back.
Unfortunately, the only way to DEFEAT a new National ID card is to contact Americans from coast-to-coast and explain EXACTLY what’s at stake.
They’re not going to get the real story from the media. It’s up to you and me to reach them.
Already, I’ve prepared email blasts, blog posts and other internet activities to alert liberty-loving Americans to the National ID scheme included in the new “Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill.”

[Gabriel Anast]

Right. The two are the same. The thing that Schmidt is basically saying, "This is going to happen, start being OK with it now..." is the technology infrastructure for the "National" (read: Inter-national) ID card. The card won't be effective without the technology infrastructure. Schmidt was saying, more or less, "We now have the technology infrastructure and about half of you use it on a daily basis and are cool with it... for the rest of you, its going to be law soon, so cope."

One of the things that Ron Paul seems to get upset about most is the fact that the National ID is always tied to biometric stamps (pupilary distance, finger print, retina scan, etc...). I am not sure why he objects to this, but the interesting thing, in my opinion, is that ultimately these types of scans are a) too complex and expensive, and b) not what most of this technology is optimized for anyway. The technology is optimized for RFID. Which should be fine, (right?) since the proposed ID cards are all RFID readable.

Anyway, the next step, the one that is the obvious conclusion if you look at the design of the technology, the field testing, etc is RFID implantable ID's. Honestly, I don't really have anything against that either, except that what Schmidt implied when he said, "The only way to manage this is true transparency and no anonymity. In a world of asynchronous threats, it is too dangerous for there not to be some way to identify you. We need a [verified] name service for people. Governments will demand it," was that in order to be a human being, you will have to agree to a EULA or a TOS.

Go right now and try to register a domain name. My favorite registrar is name.com, but you can use any of the registrars: here is a list of the top registrars. You don't have to actually buy the domain, just start the process and when you get to the checkout, you will be asked to check a box that says you have read the Registration Agreement, or the Terms or Service, or End User License Agreement, or whatever. You even had to do something like this to register for this site. If you ever signed up or a bank account, etc, you had to sign that you agreed to the bank TOS, etc. The point is that Schmidt was saying that your ID will be just like a domain name... heck, it will be a domain name... just in a larger domain, the domain of human beings.

The point is that everyone that receives this card will have to sign / certify ascent to an agreement similar to a typical domain registration agreement if what Schmidt is saying is true. The main differences will be in scope: contingent on agreeing to this will be your ability to purchase anything, sell anything, work, live in a house, travel anywhere, etc.

One day in prayer... driving into town one day in the summer of 2006, actually... I felt that God said to me, "7xSunday is not your creation. I even gave you the name. It represents 7 days that you have to speak, to preach to the people." If that is true, then those "7 days" will end in the fist week of December, 2011. Maybe I'll be dead, or in prison or something terrible, or maybe I will just be disconnected.

So... timeline? If that date is when 7xs is "disconnected..." then it is also likely in the near vicinity of the time of the issuing of the mark. Or at least it is during the time period of the rolling out of that policy and technology. If that is the case, then before that time the anti-christ will already have begun his reign.

[smfmommy]

http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2010/August05/0592.html

Could this be seal number 3?  Or is all that farther down the road?

Sure made me glad we bought extra wheat this summer regardless!

 

[Gabriel Anast]

yeah... this is off topic, but, here are the charts:

http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/ZW/M

...and after a friend and I looked at this very closely, it seems like the wheat prices will spike to 14x the normal prices at the opening of the third seal. We will see what happens with this Russian grain shortage.

Uh... so that last post just kind of trailed off... its because I had some spare time today and started a "one page Revelation" layout so I could describe the timeline as I see it. Its incredible how much information is in the Revelation. Its unreal how detailed God made the the layout of the timeline in such a short text.

Anyway, yes, I do believe that the third (and second for that matter) seal could open before the abomination that makes desolate... I am not sure about the 4th seal.... it seems to occur at about the same time, and the fifth seal definitely (to me) seems to open after the abomination that makes desolate. Maybe at the exact same time.

[smfmommy]

Sorry to go off topic, but thank you for the reply.  I would be very interested to see your one page summary.  I have always loved Revelation but for the longest time read it like a sci-fi novel rather than a factual book.  Thank you for helping me to change my point of view.

 

[AndysDad]

One hour video Collision Course featuring Joel C. Rosenberg talks about the imminent Persian attack on Israel.

Andy'sDad

[Gabriel Anast]

I have long thought that there would be a false flag attack by "Iran" on Israel and that it would give impetus and the excuse to occupy Iran, thus completing the destruction of the Muslim power infrastructure. My understanding of Daniel and Revelation indicates that the war of the anti-christ is against the "king of  the south," the south being the "south" quadrant of the divided Grecian empire: Egypt, and eventually, the Saracens.

My understanding of the first seal is that it opened some time after the "civil wars within Joseph" ended. French / English wars, English / US wars, US civil war. It was after this that the rider who had a bow and rode a white horse is given a crown, conquering and to conquer.

As I see it, this first seal is long opened, I am not sure about the second seal, but it seems likely / possible that the second seal has opened as well (very recently... maybe since the mid 80's? or possibly the end of Viet Nam...). The third seal, there is no way I can see that as having opened yet.

My point being that I see the second seal opening as being part and parcel with the wars of the anti-christ against the king of the south.

[ForeverGirl]

Latest country to require an idealistic oath of citizenship: Israel, interestingly.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/victory-for-israel-s-right-as-jewish-state-loyalty-oath-set-to-become-law-1.317565

"I pledge allegiance to the state, and am only a human if I subscribe to its ideals."

I can understand a country making some ideal into policy, but I cannot understand a country forcing it's citizenry to swear an oath to that ideal. All it ensures is that the ones that swore the oath are complicit liars or fools. It alienates the entire moral, self-made aspect of the population.  Someone wants to be God... the Calvinist version of God, that is.

--gabe

[khix]

Do you feel the same way about children saying the pledge to the flag in schools?

[AndysDad]

The (second) beast (a political / national power) comes to power and rules with 10 kings (seats of power) for one hour (42 1/2 years... a day is as a thousand years, so an hour is as 42.5 years).

Ah . . .  You got an extra 20 years in the numerator. One twenty-fourth of  a thousand years is forty-one years, eight months.

Andy'sDad

[ForeverGirl]

"one hour" = 41 years, 8 months:
Weird, yes... how did I mess that up?

"France = Manasseh(?)":
Also... about... hmm, I just don't know... Christmas to New Year's maybe? I had some kind of weird thing come up... man, I totally forget, but I though that God was saying, "France is not Manasseh, look again." To this day I have no better clue as to the nature / bloodline of France, but in a lot of prayer God seemed to assert two things, that Joseph is not a house divided, and that Manasseh is more like the "governmental aspects" and Ephraim more like the "business aspects." .com vs .gov or something along those lines. US commercialism vs GB (historic and current) empire building.

"First seal being long opened...":
Not sure about this anymore. Recent reading has led me to believe that this rider might well be the anti-christ himself. A leader who has a crown and is given a sword, conquering and to conquer. The conquest (as is implied by the text) being intended, permanent conquest (unlike WWI and WWII conquests, but much like Iraq and Afghanistan with permanent indigenous military forces overseen directly by and answering directly to US military departments instead of the local government). The rider with his white horse appears to most eyes to be righteous and just in his war--his affect / facade is that of Christ.

Just happen to be up and looking at 7xS... sorry its been so long. Not sure when I'll be able to teach again.

--gabe

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