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[Amy Joy]

This thread originates from posts on this thread: Post Partum Psychosis

Since grateful's knowledge extends far beyond situations of post partum psychosis, I thought it would be good to open a thread dedicated to the topic of food as medicine.  This will be a place where grateful or others can post research and experiences (or ask questions), as time permits by each busy member. 

[grateful]

There's a point (perhaps many still?) that I forgot to mention in my shoot-from-the-hip synopsis of my understanding of food's role in healing. Besides being about eliminating toxins and ingesting nutrition and good water, it's also about the amounts of energy it takes to digest some kinds of food as opposed to others, and the fact that when a person is trying to heal from anything, it's a good thing to go easy on the digestive system in order to conserve energy. Sometimes this means fasting. Sometimes it means a lot of raw vegan, including fermented foods.

Pretty much every phrase in that paragraph needs expanding into its own thesis, but I wanted to put this out there for now before I forget it, for folks to think about and look up, and also to chime in with what they have to share.

Oh, and I couldn't find an "elimination thread," so I'll say it here, as a spark, maybe, for another topic, a phrase from a company online selling t-shirts proclaiming the message: Poopin' is cool!

Over and out,
Any Ma, a.k.a. grateful

[ForeverGirl]

This is a good thread... I love the things grateful has had to say so far. I totally agree that God made everything we need to get healthy and stay healthy. I also agree that the cleanses, fasting, etc... can bring a person back from disease of both the  mind and the body...

I just wanted to add my less-informed two cents for people that may be a little daunted by the task of changing your whole lifestyle suddenly:

This is our family's mantra when it comes to Food as Medicine:

"Slow and steady wins the race."

I have an all-or-nothing personality and it is much easier for me to fast for a week than it is for me to make small, permanent changes. However, I know a lot of people do better with little changes... especially children. While I still personally like to do an occasional fast or cleanse, I have also, under my husband's guiding and influence,  made some small permanent changes that I think have been really big factors in our health:

One of our "things" is simply to take a treat and replace it with something else that satisfies but isn't poison. For instance: Instead of fountain drinks with Mexican Food we buy real cane sugar soda like Hansens. It is still a sweet drink... but made with real sugar instead of corn syrup. There is one restaurant in town that we know of that serves Coca Cola made in Mexico with real cane sugar. 

When we buy ice cream, it is always Breyers. Again, no corn syrup.

Anything processed is replaced with something else that is "real."

No lard or cheap fats... always olive oil, butter, or coconut oil. Yeah, you have to learn to "oven bake" instead of deep fry... but it's not a huge difference.

I know it is more expensive (believe me, I know) and you will end up buying less groceries and have "treats" less often. You will also spend way less on medical needs.

If you need to make drastic changes and are putting it off because you just don't think you can do it, then try making one small, permanent change a week until your body adjusts and some of your addictions are broken.

Then, maybe, you will be stronger and more capable of handling a real cleanse and raw foods diet.  I am, by no means, disagreeing with what grateful is saying...  Just saying that if you feel like can't do it at all... take a baby step. ;-)

love,
Beka

[grateful]

ForeverGirl, that is totally true, and thank you so much for pointing it out. Whenever I encounter someone who lives near us, who is in a health bind and wants to learn about this stuff, I generally kind of give him or her an outline, like on here, about the whole picture as I've experienced it, but usually the way it plays out is one or two changes at a time, and slowly, unless the situation requires immediate, drastic action. While one lady and her husband went to a three-week program to learn how to change everything, and came home and did it (she'd been sentenced to death by the doctors), most can better handle replacing one thing at a time.

And something I think is totally cool is each one change in many cases ends up doing way more good than it seemed like it could. So that little thing you do is probably a big thing.

Very helpful, ForeverGirl. Thank you!

[grateful]

Along the lines of what ForeverGirl said, here is one example of one simple change that a person can make.

Replace one meal, or even one otherwise processed-food component of one meal, with a green smoothie. Your favorite dark, leafy greens, a sweet fruit, like bananas or mangoes, maybe some raw, soaked almonds (or not!), ice and water. Or get another smoothie recipe. It's one way to begin to get chlorophyll and at the same time cut out something you were eating that was doing you harm.

[horsemama]

an idea that has helped me make permanent (i hope!) dietary changes, is the concept of "adding in" instead of "cutting out".  I am not too good with self discipline in the food area, plus I often am too busy to eat until I am STARVING, and then I grab the quickest thing, plus I feel deprived when I consider cutting out certain (bad) foods.

So now I have added in a whole lot of good foods to my diet & lifestyle, and if I eat all of that, I don't really have much appetite left for the junk

I added:
Juice. I bought a juicer, and make a big jug of juice every morning. Usually spinach, celery, carrot, beet, whole lemon, apples, carrots, ginger. Pineapple if I have. Delicious. Doesn't look great if you add spinach AND beet, but....   I have 2 glasses first thing, then the rest over the course of the day. I have noticed that when I do this, I don't get nearly as hungry.... must do something to blood sugar levels..??

herb tea. I have a blend which I drink 3 cups of per day.

salad. I make an enormous salad for lunch, with toasted seeds, and some kind of protein (fish, cheese or chicken) and avocado for fat/energy.

smoothie. my evening snack is a smoothie, made with home-made yoghurt, strawberries, bananas & raw honey. It's sweet and tastes like dessert 

If I eat all of that, there isn't much room for anything else    I may eat a small bowl of oatmeal in the morning, and I usually have whatever the family is eating for dinner.... which is usually quite healthy as I cook from scratch every night and have a veggie garden.

I still do eat "junk", but not nearly as much as I used to. Certain "bad" foods just don't taste as good anymore, and I have no tolerance for rich foods.  If we dine out, I make better choices now, as I know that certain foods will make me feel gross afterward. All good, I think.

I have been doing this for over a year now, and it's the most sustainable change I have been able to make. I have tried several times over the years to change my diet, without being able to keep it up for more than a few months/weeks

[horsemama]

here is the BUT to my above post.........

The reason I started doing all of this, was that I wanted to get off the anti-depressants I have been taking for 8 years. I tried unsuccessfully to get off them a couple times, but always crashed and had to go back on. Then I read some info (on NGJ & WTM & other sites, and also in"The Maker's Diet") about the importance of diet and that depression can be cured with good foods........ so I tried again.

After a year, I knew my body had changed, I had lost 12 kg, felt way healthier, and started running. I saw my dr. and began the process of weaning. It took 3 months to wean completely, with no side-effects, and I was completely off for 2 weeks.... and then I crashed. Badly.   Within a week I was non-functional, crying all the time, not thinking clearly, having very dark thoughts and planning my death so it did not *look* like a suicide (couldn't do that to my kids)     This wasn't a "state of mind" kind of thing, it was physical illness. I've been there before, and had forgotten how awful it is. Anyhow... dh took me back to my dr. and I am back on anti-depressants. Still not feeling normal, but a lot better. So, I guess that little experiment didn't work

I guess I am posting this to say that not all illnesses (of body or mind) can be treated with diet. Some really do need the drugs    In this fallen world, in this fallen body, I am going to have to take these meds long term. Ah well, so be it. It's a lot better than the alternative.

[ForeverGirl]

God bless you, horsemama... those were great posts. 

May I suggest a couple of things that may help you or others, depending on each situation?

The Liver as a Storehouse:
The liver can become a storehouse of psychoactives and can be provoked by a day of exercise, a good smoothie, etc... to suddenly dump a bunch of stored psychoactives.( Ask your doctor if the psychoactive you take can produce the symptoms you recently experienced if it is taken in mega doses.) Sometimes complete with hallucinations, severe depression, etc. Having a baby can also cause this to happen because your body detoxes after birth. The toxins stored in the liver are suddenly floating through the system again and can make you think you are going crazy.

Binding and Moving out the Toxins:
Taking a strong toxicity mobilizer and binder like Chlorella or Spirulina helps bind the toxins and move them out. Just don't take them once and stop because they do also mobilize the toxins... so if you start feeling "crazy" and decide to try Chlorella,  then take them until the "event" is over. They chelate (bind and eliminate) but they also mobilize (break stuff free), so you want to chelate as long as there is stuff to mobilize.

Many (most) alternative health researchers also link food coloring toxicity to increased occurrences of ADHD. The symptoms from food coloring toxicity seems to be very similar to heavy metal toxicity in some respects. Although pharmaceutical drugs don't contain heavy metals, most of them do have a whole lot of food coloring. ("Take the blue and yellow pill...")

Dependent Liver:
Your liver can also become dependent upon a psychoactive because it has taken the place of a natural chemical that the liver is supposed to produce and doesn't, for whatever reason... Maybe the liver sends / produces a chemical activator to release a hormone that makes you feel happy and well. But for some reason it is low on that chemical and the hormones are never released... and you then feel depressed. This could be a diet deficiency or some kind of  imbalance. So you take a psychoactive that works like that chemical and releases the hormone... now you feel fine. But, over the years your liver says "I have enough of this chemical..." and stops even trying to produce the natural substance and relying on the psychoactive instead.

Then you stop taking the psychoactive. The liver runs out of the free-floating excess psychoactive and the hormones stand in queue, unreleased. Your liver still isn't producing the natural chemical it needs to release those hormones and suddenly you want to die.  This is what the slow weaning from the drug is supposed to prevent... but if the problem in the first place was a deficient diet, then you are back to square 1 which is not an answer... neither, of course, was the psychoactive.

In this case be very aware of how diet affects you... and pay special attention to balancing type foods and essentials (minerals, vitamins, enzymes, etc)

Reducing Dependence and Resurrecting the Dead:
This is where Silymarin comes into the picture.
Blessed Thistle (aka Silymarin) is an herb that regenerates and cleanses the liver.  Silymarin can help your liver regenerate, and work naturally on it's own. It will also help the liver cleanse itself of stored psychoactives at a slower pace. It is proven to help the liver work the way it is supposed to work. There is so much more to be said about Silymarin... google it and read! Saint Johns Wart is another truly famous herb that that will help "release" those hormones. However, it is best to read up on it before you take it as it is said to have some negative drug interactions. Research, research... I wish I had more time. Interestingly, both of these herbs are / can be addictive themselves. If the reason you use Silymarin is to restore / build the liver, then know that when you have attained that, you should come of Silymarin slowly or you may experience liver pain and other typical withdrawal symptoms.

Hormone Replacement vs Hormone Food:
Finally, I believe that some folks have trouble producing enough "happy hormones"...  I think this is most commonly related to lack of certain essential fatty acids, or possibly to many fatty acids of other kinds (potato chips) that reduce the ability of your body to uptake the needed ones. If antidepressants have filled that "balancing" role for a long time, then your body may have forgotten how to produce those hormones in harmony.  So, taking Evening Primrose Oil should help in this aspect. EPO still isn't fully understood as to how it works... but it does have an amazing balancing effect, especially in women. I have heard so many stories about EPO balancing hormones. Again... research and read more...

The Big Picture is hard to see all at once:
Finally, psychoactive drugs, like anything else you put in your mouth, have to be digested in order to be useful. Just like all other foods, they require certain enzymes, consume minerals and vitamins at various rates, etc... and having come off of one drug, the idea is that your body should readjust to normal metabolism rates... but maybe it didn't. Maybe it was still creating a certain enzyme in excess that was used to metabolize a higher dose of psychoactive... which may mean it's not simply a task of being weened from a certain drug. It's more about figuring out what your body is currently in need of or, possibly, over producing, and balancing all these things out. It may take a lot of time and patience, creativity, careful observation and prayer.

The doctor assumes he knows how all this works; guaranteed, he is wrong. The complexity of our system is so much greater than the small litany of tests issued by the FDA. There is SO much more to understand. I'm not saying I know it all... but that I can guarantee your doctor doesn't either. Starting from that standpoint you can pray and listen to God... carefully analyzing each craving, and taking one little step at a time.

I'm not saying you should go off your meds cold, just that there is a real physical reason why you need the meds. Just because you crashed after being weaned does not mean that you need the meds. If you can understand the reason, then in time (should you someday not be able to get the meds) you should be able to actually meet your body's real need.

Foods as Medicines:
This is where foods as medicines come in.  If you crave watermelon and bananas.... look them up and see what they contain. If you feel antsy and keyed up at night, like your heart is racing... you may need iodine and potassium. If you feel sleepy and weak... you likely need iron and should eat greens, meat... 

Our bodies are so beautifully tuned, so perfectly constructed... I have asked God to show me how He made my body to work and to tell me what I need from moment to moment. His "prescriptions" are the delightful watermelon break mid afternoon, a glass of cold milk at midnight, and a big beef steak and raw greens salad for dinner. Just right.

love,
Beka  (+Gabe)

On Chelating:
http://www.mercurylife.com/mercurylife/chelating_out_of_the_darkness/

On how to Chelate from heavy metals:

http://curezone.com/blogs/fm.asp?i=969381

[boysmama]

I'll add a hearty endorsement to all that ForeverGirl wrote.

I love this topic. It's become a passion for me. Health comes down to such simple, simple terms. Not always easy, but simple!

Pretty often now I will see people trying to make a huge dietary change that results in a massive herxheimer reaction. Some people have enough strength in their bodies to struggle through all the biochemical results  and phsycological effects of those chemical reactions, but most are so eroded they either give up thinking the idea is crazy, just like the doctors told them or actually go partially insane, even without any history of psychosis or anytime of drug use.

Slow and steady!!! Please!!

It deserves saying again that you HAVE to get to the root issues that caused the need for a prescriptive drug in the first place. Most times that root cause is nutritional which brings us back to food as medicine.
 Food is a really great place to start as it is so gentle and slow that there isn't a lot of risk for bad interaction between the foods and drugs.
Herbs and even vitamin supplements can get tricky with the interactions, but there are many that will support the chemical balance in the body while weaning off the drugs and help make up for years of nutritional starvation and imbalance.


As a side note to any one reading this....Would you please pray for "Goldie"?  She is attempting another try at healing and is weaning off the meds at the same time because she's been on them so long the side effects are accumulating. The description horsemama  gave of her crash is pretty much where she is, but with many, many other debilitating physical symptoms.

Beyond her physical and mental state she's also looking at the mountains and sea and sees God and is asking that God to show her the way and if it's possible to know how to worship Him.
If you are impressed to pray, please don't lay aside the urge. The support and a hedge of protection is needed. Thanks.

[herbalmom]

Helpful info on this WTM thread:

Easing the Effects of Narcotic [Drug] Addiction: Detox & Withdrawal

[horsemama]

Thank you Forevergirl and Boysmama for your posts - lots of info to consider.  Interesting that you mentioned liver issues..... I read with interest Shoshannas "ugly toes & fatty liver" article, and thought I should consider doing a liver cleanse.  I am sure there is a liver cleanser in the herbal tea I drink... but I threw away the package inset, so now I don't have  the ingredient list!  But I will get it from my supplier, and talk to her about a liver de-tox that will be compatible.

I did talk to my psychiatrist (urgh, isn't that an awful phrase - "my psychiatrist"  ) about WHY I have this illness, and why it is so generally prevalent.  He said the 3 main contributors are:
poor nutrition & food additives, pesticides, etc.
stress
heredity.

There is certainly a family history of severe depression on my mothers' side, including several suicides and suspicious deaths/suspected suicides in her immediate family. My grandmother died in her 40's in a "mental institution"  and I remember my mom spending days in bed  and crying a lot.

I figure I can't do much about my genes, but I can improve the nutrition & stress factors.  Stress is a bit difficult because I have a Visionary husband who leaves a trail of projects for me to complete. Guess who gets the job of polishing that fire truck, and sourcing new hoses at good prices and finding ways we can make money with it......    He is also VERY sociable, so we have loads of people coming through our house all the time.  He sells cars for a living, and will often invite clients home for dinner, or to stay overnight.......   I'm not complaining, just saying that these are factors which I have to carefully manage so as not to overload myself. I am learning to know my limits, my warning signs, and dh is very patient and kind. We have both made adjustments.

And the nutrition aspect.... I am learning about. Thank you for those links, I had a brief look, but will come back later when I have time and the kids' schoolwork is done.....  And to google Silymarin....

Until I can figure this out, I am VERY GRATEFUL for meds that have literally saved many lives, and that can help me feel normal, and be a wife to my dh and a mommy to my children.

[horsemama]

Oh, I forgot to say, I am praying for Goldie

[ladyhen]

(ladyhen, are you out there?  Got anything to add?  )

Not much, other than to confirm what has been said. 

I agree with so much of what Beka and boysmama have said. 

Liver cleansing has so much to do with getting our systems back to functioning properly and I would encourage anyone with health problems to consider a liver cleanse and support from taking Silymarin.   

I do think that conventional medicine has something to offer in the way of tests that can pinpoint weaknesses or deficiencies, but I'm not confident that most conventional doctors are knowledgeable about restoring health through food, herbs, gentle means, or even through pharmaceuticals.   I think that finding our own way to 'Health' is going to take perseverance on our part and a lot of prayer, research, and support from others.   And, sometimes, it is going to take finding a knowledgeable practitioner to point the way and there are just too few of those.    And, sometimes, immediate intervention through mainstream medicine and drugs is necessary and you just clean up the aftereffects.  I have had to do that once or twice with severe health problems that arose.

Beka mentions craving the foods that have the nutrients that our bodies need.  I think it must take having a very good diet and really paying attention to cues to be able to 'read' that information.  I have known people that sensitive, but I'm not one of them.  No matter how long I have been eating whole foods and lots of good greens, my body is still telling me that cinnamon rolls would be enough to sustain me, if I would just eat them.       

[ForeverGirl]

Just wanted to clarify that I was not encouraging you to do a liver cleanse/flush, horsemama. To the contrary! A liver cleanse right now would probably flush a lot of stored psychoactive into your system and that would be truly terrible. Instead, what I would recommend would be:

Discover what it is that your body is not getting/producing naturally and beginning to supply those things with foods, herbs, supplements. Like cilantro or parsley as a daily food to chelate, Silymarin to help your liver begin to function, and essential oils like Evening Primrose to balance your hormones.

 

Beka

PS: Also praying for Goldie.

PPS: @ladyhen... LOL... sounds like your flesh is lying to you.... heehee. Sometimes you gotta tie it down and force the truth out of it. :-D

[Free Woman]

(ladyhen and boysmama, are you out there?  Got anything to add? )

  No matter how long I have been eating whole foods and lots of good greens, my body is still telling me that cinnamon rolls would be enough to sustain me, if I would just eat them.       

Haha, wow this is so true of me, too.  Once I get started on the sweets I can't stop.  Even on a healthy diet, there are still a few temptations that never go away.  One of the main one's being Bekah's Chocolate Chip Cooke Recipe!  Why did you have to invent that one, Bekah, they are soooo good!  I tried selling them for awhile like she did but the temptation to eat them (and the raw dough) out weighed any profit we made (which wasn't much since I HATE confronting and selling to strangers), so I gave it up.  Anyway, may God help all of us on our journey to health.

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