Thanks, Garrett, for taking the time to present your position. I know that my position is not traditional, and that it flies in the face of most of the accepted church fathers, however, I do also believe my position is true to the Word of God... and, oddly, I think that it is not opposed to your position. However, I believe (and I make an assumption here) that your position comes largely from traditional doctrines and understanding. Let me present a few ideas and see what your thoughts are, and then let us proceed to study the Bible about the issue.
1 Timothy 5:17 Let the elders who rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in the word and doctrine.
First about the concept of the "elder," and then about the word "rule."
I believe that the "elder" is very specifically defined and obvious in definition... it means one that is older. My father is my elder, and his father is our elder. Throughout the Bible it is assumed that the "elder" always bears rule over the younger. It was out of place for Jacob to recieve the birthright and the blessing as he was the younger, and it was an anomaly that Jacob blessed Joseph's sons Ephriam and Manassah out of birth order... When Jesus asked the Scribes and Pharisees how David could speak of his own descendant as "My Lord" they we dumbfounded and admitted by silence that they did not know how this was possible.
So, I do believe that elders can and should by right bear rule. Some have capitulated it, and most have no idea that they should rule. Others are obtuse and heavy handed, driving off any that could benefit. The idea that I see presented in the Bible is that it is natural for the younger to desire the advise, correction, and instruction of the elder, and that it is good and needful for the older to give light, insight, saftey, and oversight for the younger.
In Titus 1 (which you mention) Paul is telling Timothy to go to the various groups of Christians and in each to ordain elders (ordain, I believe, means simply to set in order, or to establish in proper place... not to invent that which does not already exist, but to put in proper place that which already exists. You can "ordain" a baseball to a pitchers hand, or a soccer ball to a player's shoe, but not a baseball to a bowling pin or a football to a putting green.) Basically what he is saying is that those Christians do not understand the natural order that God has provided and because of that the people have no more value for an elder than for a fool and a knave.
Paul specifically tells Timothy which older men to ordain... he doesn't just say, "tell the people to listen to the old men" but rather he gives three qualifications: "If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly."
Paul justifies these needed qualifications by aserting that each elder must to be "...a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers." Presumably without the above qualifications it would not be evident that an elder could carry out these neccessary tasks...
So why should an elder carry out these tasks? "For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake." Evidently the only way to "stop these mouths" is for qualified elder men having been established in their "rule" to "by sound doctrine exhort and convince the gainsayers." Notice, the gainsayers are not the vain talkers and deceivers... the gainsayers are those who have listened to those vain talkers and deceivers.
Notice also that nowhere does this have anything to do with the "Church" as we know the word in modern times. This has rather to do with the qualified older men within the local body taking their rightful position and "rule" (by nature and natural order of events, not by power or authority) and "by sound doctrine exhorting and convincing the gainsayers."
You have rightly implied that there is wisdom in obeying those just elders in the faith: "Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." However Paul himself says that, "Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." Here he is talking to the qualified elders! He is saying that some of the qualified elders themselves will draw away men from Christ.
So? What is the answer here? Where is the believer's protection and how to elders fit into the picture?
The structure of authority as regards humans is plainly given in the beginning of 1 Corinthians 11 where Paul says, "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." In another place he tells children to obey their parents... children in Hebrew tradition being at very most 20 years old, but most likely what we would consider to be about 18 1/2 by current "age" accounting.
In these verses it is plain that we, just like the angels, are "sons of God." The last verse being the weirdest, saying plainly that even our nature is different though not yet apparently so.
(Joh 1:12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
(Rom 8:14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
(Phi 2:15) That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
(1Jo 3:1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
(1Jo 3:2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
So, here is my answer. Protection and authority on earth is given to the man, and to the father of a family. When his sons grow old enough to marry, they are to "leave father and mother" to allow their wives to "cleave" unto them. The wife is in the husband as we are all in Christ, and the children are under rule of the parents.
Just as children are under the rule of parents, so "children in Christ" should follow those that taught them Christ (1 Corinthians 10) if indeed those that taught them are "in Christ." There are some that learned Christ from people who do not even believe: "Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice." They should find other elders in the faith to follow and to learn from.
Finally, in the beginning of 2 Corinthians Paul specifically states that he as an elder and an apostle does not have dominion (authority) over the faith of his children in Christ, but rather is "a helper of your joy." In other words his place is to teach and exhort as a father does a child, and that only for a time (whether in life or in death, etc). It is Paul's duty to help, not the childs duty to obey. It is the elder which will be held to account for what he teaches, and it is the responsibility of he which is greatest in God's Kingdom to be the servant of all.
The believer's protection is in the finished work of Christ, His shed blood, and His armor, and in His Father who is our God and Father. The woman in the man, the children sancified by the parents, and the men in Christ who is our head. All of us submitting one to another in love, and some, being "elder" in the faith and in life by duty and "ordinance," "ruling" the flock of God which is among them.
This has nothing to do with any denomintion, church affiliation, membership, nationality, race, lineage or so called "fathers of the faith." It has to do with obedience to Christ, and that those who are grounded in the faith are responsible to teach and care for those who are younger. Those who are younger, if they seek Christ, should look for those which are "elder" and which know Christ more fully. Finally that those which do know Christ should not forsake "assembling of themselves together."
--gabe
PS: This is what I believe, and I believe that I can support it from the Bible. I have, however, been wrong before and there may be points where I have not understood a passage fully. I am interested in understanding this concept fully as I believe that whatever the "doctrine of the Nicolaitans" is has something to do with a misunderstanding of the issue at hand.
