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[sarajane]

This is hard to type. I sit here myself unsure. (that is hard to say) My husband says I am the most Christian woman he knows. Well, okay. But why then do I still get scared, scared of death? Is this normal? I worry, and worry. Doing good things scare the dickens out of me, I worry I am trying to work my way to heaven but I know that isn't the way to get there.

I think maybe I am just frightened because I and so many in my family were decieved in the past. Everyone seems to always be so sure of their salvation, so why do I worry. Back when I still sinned and kept on sinning I was so sure I was saved but now I think, I couldn't of been otherwise I would have stopped doing those things!

Most around here can pinpoint a date and time they got saved, tell me all about it. I don't know when I got saved. I just love Jesus. I feel like my worry is a sin against God and I want to stop but don't know how. 

Anyway, can't type more now. I hope someone has some answers for me, maybe someone who has gone through these very feelings can hopefully share how you overcame it. Nobody I know ever felt this way before and has no advice for me as what to do. I feel very alone.

[KansasGuy]

This is Kansas Girl.  I listened to Michael Pearl's three part message on Salvation and discovered that even though I had been told that I was saved at the age of four I wasn't saved at all.  I doubted my salvation for years and was so afraid of death, but whenever I questioned my salvation, someone would show my all of the assurance verses in the Bible and then pray with me and then tell me that I was fine. People were offering me assurance that wasnt theirs to give.  In my heart, I knew I wasn't.  Finally, after listening to Michael Pearl's three sermon's it was almost a relief to me to have someone come right out and say that I wasn't saved.  That night my husband came home, and I told him that I wasn't saved and he was not to tell me otherwise.  He was shocked to say the least.  It took three days of struggling to come to Christ because I was so religious having grown up with all the right things to say, do  and think that it was hard to come to Christ as a little child.  Finally. I was on my bed crying out to God because I wanted to come to him and yet felt like there was something in the way.  I then realized that there was nothing I could do, no hope of accomplishish salvation.  At that moment, peace flooded my heart.  I had stopped trying to become saved, and Jesus was then allowed to do his perfect work in me.  I'm not going to tell you that you aren't saved because you fear death, but neither is it anyone's job to give assurance.  That is something that has to be between you and God.  Listen to the messages below:

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/uploads/media/1-Born-Again.mp3
http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/uploads/media/2-Am-I-Saved.mp3
http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/uploads/media/3-Except-Ye-Repent.mp3

[farmermanda]

I had a false profession of salvation for about 9 years.  I had "repeated a prayer" but I never really believed anythingin my heart. I merely did it because I was scared of hell.    I had a fear of death too.    I dont now that I am saved. Death itself but the act of dieing I am still nervous about.  I have obviously never died before.  I realize though that once the act of dieing is over, then im dead and in HEaven but it doesn't necessarily make the thoughts go away.  Must be a woman thing   My husband says im crazy lol.

 First time experiences are always nerve  wrecking to me when I think about it.  Plus its something that is a one time event.  No second time to get it "right" lol

[sarajane]

I had listened to those three messages a couple months ago. I was unsure when I listened to them and thought maybe I got saved in there somewhere and then came out worrying yet again. I'm scared to death of hell and don't like the idea of a life without Christ. I want to do things God's way and it seems like everything I desire is to go down the path that God wants me to go down. But aren't saved people supposed to know they are saved!? I hate it when anyone trys to assure me I am saved. Thank yall for not doing that. All it does it make me feel nice for one day then I am miserable again. I'm scared, tormented, I hate it. Geez, I think my husband would be mad at me if he knew what I was typing on here. I just need to get these thoughts out! I can't take it anymore.

I feel like everything I have been told about "how to get saved" has been a lie. When I hear people like you Kansas Girl, tell me about how you got saved I don't understand your experience (I believe what you say and don't doubt you). I just don't get it. It doesn't make sense. Everyone seems to have the experience that they know is when they got saved.

This sounds stupid I know but I will literally think, "What if I am already and just don't know it, what if all this worry is just the devil making me doubt? God will be mad that I doubted him." Maybe those thoughts come from everyone in my life who has assured with with all those "assurance verses". Maybe not. I feel lost so I must be right? (don't have to answer that, just thinking, nice to have some people to talk to about it) I mean, why would a saved person feel lost. Doesn't add up. Where is all this joy and comfort I should be filled with? It hasn't been there.

The strange thing is it used to be. But you can't get lost after you have been saved right? Before I had my baby girl I was so sure of everything. Does that make any sense?

Oh man, I am going on and on. I'm sorry but thank you so much for reading this!

I will read my bible until I can't stay awake anymore looking for answers. Sometimes I even find myself picking out all the reasons why I just can't be saved.

I hear people like you farmermanda say this "I never really believed anythingin my heart" and I just wonder, what is it like to believe it in your heart, what does that mean? I talk to God everyday, thanking for everything and sing songs to him but lately it feels in vain, I wonder if he even listens to me anymore. I just want to know what to do and I am probably looking in all the wrong places. Michael Pearl's words ring in my ears even now "Salvation is so easy but we make it so hard...".....yeah, I can't wait for the easy part because I am messing everything up right now, at least I think I am.

I still worry, maybe I am and am just doubting. Oh, how silly that would be. That is what everyone I know what's me to think though. But saved people don't doubt they are saved! They can't, that doesn't make any sense. Why would God leave us here to worry until death. Fear him yes but worry ourselves sick all the time like I am doing.....He wouldn't do that to us! I can't hardly concentrate on caring for my family anymore! Oh Lord help me.....

[sarajane]

I just wanted to apologize for using this place a sounding board the way I did. I was pretty upset last night. I don't know if it was right of me to come here and bother everyone here about this. I just needed someone to talk to. I hope I didn't upset anybody in doing so.

[Forever Girl]

Hi SaraJane,

Faith is not confidence in your belief
Faith did not roll away the stone
Nor will it see you safely Home
But Him in whom you have believed.

Faith is not quantity nor quality belief
It matters not how "strong" your faith
For your belief is nothing great
It's irrelevant in any case -
But rather, in whom have you believed?

1) Salvation is something Jesus did.

2) To be saved you must believe that Jesus, the Son of God, lived a sinless life, died in your place, and rose again.

3) To "believe" is to reckon what you've heard to be true. It is not a feeling, or a convincing of yourself. You either believe it's true, or you don't believe it's true.

Salvation doesn't happen to you when you believe enough - it is provided for those who do believe, as they believe it. The focus is not on the quality or quantity of your faith, but rather on Jesus - do you believe Him or not?

4) When doubts come, they are from Satan, to whom you have given place by believing his lies. If you choose to believe Jesus died for you, and that His death is sufficient payment for your sins, then tell the Devil to go where Jesus sends him, because you choose to believe that what Jesus did for you is enough - whether your faith is big enough or not is not an issue - Jesus is big enough. He saves. He can keep the weakest, most doubting person saved, if all that they believe is that He can - He can, and will.

You cannot have assurance of a salvation based upon your own faith or Christian life, because you are not sufficient. Jesus work of salvation:  death, burial and resurrection - is the ONLY THING THAT CAN PLEASE GOD. Rest in His work - He's done it all. There's nothing left but rest.

Love,
Rebekah

[Titus2:3wife]

Thanks Beeyoutiful!  That was beeyoutiful!!  I had never heard it explained like that.  It really hit home!

[Blessed2BHome]

I often doubt as well. Mostly when I hear a sermon about it or read a post like yours. I sit back and ask myself , "how do I know"?
Then I remember to how I was before I was saved and the differences that have come about.
A little back ground first...  I said the prayer of salvation when I was 5 and was told I was saved. I believed that until about 5 years ago. Meanwhile I never really thought about God or what I was doing wrong. I knew it was wrong, but Hey, I was forgiven right? Then at 17 I met a boy.... Long story short I had a baby out of wedlock at 18 and was left abandoned. I started seeking God. However I had been mislead to believe that ALL I needed to do was say the prayer of salvation and I was ok. I did that, but continued a not so Christian lifestyle. I met my current husband and we married. He adopted my son and I realized everything was ALL wrong. I began reading my Bible and praying. I CAN'T tell you when, but in the first or second year of marriage I started to change. My husband saw this change and also started reading his Bible and praying. We both started to change together. I probably said the prayer of salvation 100 times in my life, but it wasn't until I started "LIVING" FOR Christ that I actually "felt" different. My husband will sometimes ask if there is a sure way of knowing, I look at him and say "I know" because I SEE changes in the both of us.
Not just little changes, but BIG ones. We both used to drink, we don't know, my husband used fowl language and he stopped, we watched questionable television and movies and now refrain. We both have more compassion for others and eachother. I see the fruits of the spirit slowly emerging in each of us the more we read our Bibles and Believe what we are reading to be true and apply it to our lives.

We have a LONG way to go. We are realizing more and more how "brain washed" we are from growing up in a secular world. We are in the process of trading our roles as head of household because of the way I was raised. I also have to learn how to be a HelpMeet since I wasn't raised that way. It's not easy realizing the way you have lived all your life wasn't the way God had planned, but with God's help it is WAY easier than doing it on my own.

Hope this helps some.. I wish I had an exact date of when I became "saved", but I don't..  I guess I can ask God when I get there huh!

[sarajane]

Thanks everyone for your patience and kindness. I am actually feeling wonderful today. I have figured some things out and everything everyone here is saying makes sense as well.

How this started: I had my doubts for a good while then decided I wanted to witness more when I go out. I started thinking how I would explain to people what it means to get saved. I was trying to figure out what to tell a person if they asked me "How to get saved?" or, "How do you know you are saved?" This got me into a heap of trouble. I began searching scripture and asking myself how I knew I was saved, did I really know, etc, etc. I made myself miserable. I can't even describe how I felt and all the awful thoughts that went through my head. I asked God for understanding I don't know how many times and keep thinking he wasn't giving it to me.

To my suprise, last night I realized that through all that torment that I put myself through he gave me great understanding. I understand it better than ever before and realized I have been saved all along. Praise the Lord!

Tuesday night I was in a great depression and my husband had been working all day then came home napped and had to go right back out all evening. This was very unplanned and so I didn't know what I was gonna do all evening. I went out to eat with my baby girl then went to see my folks. I didn't plan on telling them my troubles but they always know when something is wrong. I went out on the porch and my dad followed and I burst out in tears and told him all about how I had been feeling. We had a great talk and I really felt better, not perfect but better. In the coming day which I actually spent with mom and dad I was amazed that I didn't worry once all day and actually even started to miss my husband. I told him this and he was like "Don't you always miss me when I'm gone?" I said...."Sadly, I have been so busy worrying that I haven't thought about you or Neveah hardly at all!" Shame on me!

I was so busy trying to figure out how to get saved and subconciously trying to be "good" and "spiritual" that I negleted my family and even my own needs. Its like I forgot I'm human and it is okay to enjoy my spouse and daughter and work. I was analyzeing and reanalyzeing every little thing I did until I had backtracked myself to that old, lie of a gospel of works.

I even came to realize that part of my problem was I wasn't taking the time to enjoy my husband and had begun to feel very, very lonely. In all that trying to be good I forgot that God made two people and meant them to live together and enjoy eachother. We are made to need another person. We are not to neglet to gather together with other believers. I had myself feeling like it was walking after the lust of the flesh to need other people so much.

But! Alas, in the end, I learned so much from the emotional torment that I was tempted and jumped into. Praise the Lord for the wonderful ways in which he works! I went through some guilt for having doubted and negleting my dear husband and even myself. How silly I have been, I'm glad that's over and I can get back to living for the Lord the way he intended. 

[*MommaJo*]

So there doesn't have to be a 'date' of salvation?  I remember the day that I confessed Jesus as Lord, asked Him to take over my life and tears of joy streamed down my face as the Holy Spirit took me over.  That was 10 years ago (I'm 27 now).  Since then, I've gone from obedient to sinful and back again.  I've felt the confusion of did I really mean it when I asked Christ into my heart?  If so, why do I sin so much.  Why can I not put Him first in my daily activities.  I've also felt the Holy Spirit wash a burden over me for the lost souls in a crowd of people.  Am I confused?  I certianly am not questioning the salvation of anyone here, if anyones, my own.  I guess I just thought there had to be a point in time where the decision was made to believe.  And isn't it true that if one truly believes, it can never be taken away.  Please reply.  Are my thoughts wrong?

[Forever Girl]

Well, it seems like this is a pretty important, foundational question, and if you were sitting in my livingroom having tea with me (come on over!) this is what I'd tell you... However, I'm not a Bible teacher, and your question could really benefit from one of the men taking the time to answer you on this subject... hopefully one of them will jump in. In the meantime, have a cup of tea, and let me share my understand of my own salvation with you:

Hold Fast: don't let go, don't walk away from, or fall away from, cling to, adhere to...

2Ti 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Hbr 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Hbr 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.
Hbr 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of [our] faith without wavering; (for he [is] faithful that promised;)
Rev 2:25 But that which ye have [already] hold fast till I come.

Summary: Hold fast the sound words, confidence, rejoicing of the hope, our profession, profession of faith, that which ye have already.

Unbelief
Hbr 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Hbr 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Hbr 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hbr 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Summary: Unbelief results in: departing from the living God, failure to enter into the promised land, failure to enter into rest.

Belief
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
1Cr 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Cr 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Eph 1:19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Phl 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, [yet] he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Hbr 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The verses that stand out to me the most are the last two. They seem to say that drawing back is ceasing to believe. I.E: "I used to believe that Jesus' work on Calvary was sufficient for my salvation, but now I believe that I also have to..."

I think that drawing back, ceasing to hold fast, is a failure to continue to believe; it is a decision to no longer believe. I've seen this occur in people who are drawn away by their own lusts and enticed, and their hearts were hardened through the decietfulness of sin, and their hardened hearts ceased to believe in God's promises, and they died in the wilderness of their own wandering stubborness, and failed to enter into rest.

The last verse impressed on me that to believe God is to; A) please God (obey, love, believe, keep my commandments...) and B) to "diligently seek Him."  I've known many that claim "belief" but do not please God, and do not diligently seek Him.

I guess this may or may not answer your question, but it's hard to present salvation as an event in time when the Scriptures present it as a continuing, currently happening, event to those who believe.

May God lead you to perfect understanding of Himself,

Rebekah

[KansasGuy]

I recommend reading 2 Peter 1:4-11.  Verse 10 is so rich in truth.  The promise here is that if you do these things (listed in the passage), you shall never fall.  There are several things to think about in this passage.  First, verse 10 not only promises that you will never fall if you do these things, it also gives you a mandate to "give diligence to make your calling and election sure".  This means that it's okay to want to make sure that you are saved.  I've been taught while growing up that to doubt is to not have faith which led me to wonder about my own salvation.  This verse makes it very clear--"give diligence" to it.  Make sure; ask questions; search the Scriptures for answers; it's okay to do this.  It's too important not to.  Second, this passage is saying to add these things to you faith.  Only you can know if that has happened.  I do not know if you are saved anymore than I know if anyone else is.  I suspect that most are based on their fruit, but there is no way I can definitely know since I cannot look on the heart.  I've known many who thought they were saved and acted like a Christian should act, but were not saved.  Only God and you can know for sure if you are saved since you and God are the only ones that can look at your heart.  This means that you do not have to try to impress upon anyone the fact that you are or are not saved.  It is between you and God, and no one can give you that assurance except God himself.  The good news is that He does, and He will when you find Him.  If you have already found Him, He will give you assurance.  If you have not, today is the day of salvation.  I hope you find the Truth that will set you free.

--Kansas Guy

[sarajane]

If you have already found Him, He will give you assurance.

This statement, that has often been said to me, has always caused me to fear and stumble. I have this illusion of when a person gets saved they will never fear any longer. This "good feeling" of peace and joy will overtake them and won't go away. I start to base my own salvation on how I am feeling at the time. My own feelings start to become my way of measuring how saved I am. I believe I am in error to do this.

I told my husband one night while I was fretting over salvation that "saved people don't worry like this", "saved people don't get scared", "saved people know they are saved and don't fear death or damnation".

He said, "UNsaved people don't worry like this, they don't think about salvation and death." I think that to believe our human emotions will never allow us to feel unsure simply cannot be true. I feel like if I expect God to take me over with a "good feeling of assurance" that I am tempting him to SHOW me I am saved. But he cannot, I must believe in him and trust him. "for what a man seeth why doth he yet hope for"

I think what my husband said to me was very true. Saved people do worry and get scared. We're human. 

[happytobehome]

If you have already found Him, He will give you assurance.

This statement, that has often been said to me, has always caused me to fear and stumble. I have this illusion of when a person gets saved they will never fear any longer. This "good feeling" of peace and joy will overtake them and won't go away. I start to base my own salvation on how I am feeling at the time. My own feelings start to become my way of measuring how saved I am. I believe I am in error to do this.

I told my husband one night while I was fretting over salvation that "saved people don't worry like this", "saved people don't get scared", "saved people know they are saved and don't fear death or damnation".

He said, "UNsaved people don't worry like this, they don't think about salvation and death." I think that to believe our human emotions will never allow us to feel unsure simply cannot be true. I feel like if I expect God to take me over with a "good feeling of assurance" that I am tempting him to SHOW me I am saved. But he cannot, I must believe in him and trust him. "for what a man seeth why doth he yet hope for"

I think what my husband said to me was very true. Saved people do worry and get scared. We're human. 

Sarajane:  I too have struggled with the same thing you are!!  You are not alone in this.  I still struggle with it everyday!!  Check my thread"My heart is so heavy" and you will see some of my struggles as well.  The devil is tempting you when those thoughts creep up in you mind.  It happens to me everyday.  You feel like you will fail you children and your husband, but God is there to pick you up again.  This website has helped me out so much, when my faith and mind have grown weak.  Just remember you are human and you will have lots of bad days, but God is still there to take your hand and guide you in the right direction.  Use your "Fear in God" to live a wonderful life.  Don't worry about the things you can't control.  I have worried until I just couldn't sleep anymore, it's not worth it too me anymore.  Your post on this subject has made me think a lot about my stand on salvation too.  I glad I can relate to someone else too.  Beeoutifol:(sp) Thanks for your post on salvation. 
I understand now, and can be at peace with myself at last!!  Sarajane, give it all to God and you too will find peace in your life.  No more worrying!!  I know, it's hard(I give good advice, but sometimes I don't listen to my own advice) God will take all of those worries away.  Tell Satan to go elsewhere, he is no longer in control.  If you want to talk some more about this you can send me a personal message.  I'm all ears.  I would benefit as well.  It's nice to talk to people with similar struggles.  Thanks.  God Bless You.  I will say a little prayer for you today.


Misty

[HamDiggy]

Amen!

SaraJane, you are NOT alone.  You are honest!

Worry IS the opposite of faith.  You have already expressed belief in Jesus as the One True God (read Isaiah 53!)  He is God manifest in flesh, the sinless Lamb who paid our price for sin. 

It isn't bad works that sends anybody to hell.  It is only unbelief.  Your belief in Jesus Himself, is a gift in itself, from God Himself!  So like Bekah said, rest only in HIS work, in Him.  Paul taught that we cannot even boast THAT we have belief....even that ability to understand (from the mire of sin) and that the scales have fallen away so we could look up to see the Creator and His offer to save us, is a gift FROM Him. 

Like your own little baby, who looks up to you with little understanding save that your eyes light up when she looks at you, you can rest assured that you, too, are the apple of His eye.  He knows every hair on your head!  He knows you like the palm of your hand (PM me for specific scriptures - I'd have to look for them).  He cares so much for each sparrow that falls from the sky, which He notices, how much more so does He care for you, one of His own?

Your 'good work's (as your dh says) are -evidence- of your heart.  It is the fruit that is evident, because you are well-rooted in Jesus.  Your good works are evidence that He is alive in you!

So, rest in HIM.  In how magnificent HE is.  Because, we all are where you are at, sister, but are so snowed by being raised 'Christian' we think we have something to offer God, lol.  So many of us struggle to understand the depravity of man.  You understand it!  And it is so much easier to love the Savior, when we understand how truly depraved and desparate we are.  Focus on Him....learning more and more about Him and how to love Him, rather than yourself.  Rejoice than none of your salvation is dependant on you, and that nobody EVER can snatch you from His hand.  EVER. 

One more thing.  Read about a broken spirit.  It is a wonderful place to be...totally dependant on Him.  And, study about Jesus conquering death!  He has removed the sting from death. 

Hi SaraJane,

Faith is not confidence in your belief
Faith did not roll away the stone
Nor will it see you safely Home
But Him in whom you have believed.

Faith is not quantity nor quality belief
It matters not how "strong" your faith
For your belief is nothing great
It's irrelevant in any case -
But rather, in whom have you believed?

1) Salvation is something Jesus did.

2) To be saved you must believe that Jesus, the Son of God, lived a sinless life, died in your place, and rose again.

3) To "believe" is to reckon what you've heard to be true. It is not a feeling, or a convincing of yourself. You either believe it's true, or you don't believe it's true.

Salvation doesn't happen to you when you believe enough - it is provided for those who do believe, as they believe it. The focus is not on the quality or quantity of your faith, but rather on Jesus - do you believe Him or not?

4) When doubts come, they are from Satan, to whom you have given place by believing his lies. If you choose to believe Jesus died for you, and that His death is sufficient payment for your sins, then tell the Devil to go where Jesus sends him, because you choose to believe that what Jesus did for you is enough - whether your faith is big enough or not is not an issue - Jesus is big enough. He saves. He can keep the weakest, most doubting person saved, if all that they believe is that He can - He can, and will.

You cannot have assurance of a salvation based upon your own faith or Christian life, because you are not sufficient. Jesus work of salvation:  death, burial and resurrection - is the ONLY THING THAT CAN PLEASE GOD. Rest in His work - He's done it all. There's nothing left but rest.

Love,
Rebekah

[MommyChurch]

Sarajane,
    This is my first post, and I am compelled to share with you my experience. This maybe a long post, and it is rather late at night. I also realize that this post is a bit old, but I hope that this may help someone too.
     As Mike Pearl says, Salvation is a VERY simple thing. Rebeka said very plainly and that is all there really is to it. My testimony is rather long, but I'll try to make it short.
I have made about five "official" professions of faith. By official I mean, that I have went forward in a church service and have been baptized! All of those attempts in salvation were vain. Everytime I had a doubt, someone would tell me that I need to come to the "conviction" I wasn't saved, and get saved by praying the sinner's prayer, and that they were lies of the Devil. Sadly through all of this NO ONE, really sat down with me and explained the FINISHED WORK of Jesus on the Cross! I knew that he died for our sins, but I didn't understand what that really meant.
     One day in Bible college a preacher came and told his testimony of how he always had doubts, how he went forward in church many times, how he prayed the "prayer of salvation" at least a 1,000 times with no peace. I decided to go up and talk to him about my problem. That preacher finally, took the Bible and showed me Jesus Christ, and HIS finished work on the cross.
     As the poem Rebeka wrote, it isn't about "our" faith, but about JESUS, and what he has ALREADY done for us. The preacher explained to me that God was Holy and Righteous and that are sinners. We have made God angry with our sins, and he MUST punish it, or He wouldn't be a righteous God. Jesus, came down as God and Man, died on the cross, ascended to His Father, and sprinkled His Holy precious blood on the mercy seat. There God was satisfied with Christ's payment for our sins. Our sins are all payed for, once and for all. If God is satisfied with that, then we should be too! When I realized that, I thought, of course! God's righteous demand has already been met by Christ on the cross for my sins. There is absolutely no need to fret and worry over this. I just need to believe that Christ has already done this for me! What peace and what joy!
     Sadly that peace and joy was overshadowed later by bad teaching. The preacher that pointed out Jesus to me, sounded so totally different than what I have heard all my life, that I wondered if he was a false preacher. He didn't tell me to "repent" of my sins. Infact he told me to stop going to the alter to pray for salvation. He said that it would only make matters worse. But in the coming weeks after that, I heard, that if I wasn't willing to come to the alter, then Christ wouldn't meet me. I had to come on Christ's terms not my own, and the preacher in the pulpit would severely twist the scriptures.
     To make a long story short it escalated to the point of severe depression. I have corresponded with the Pearls over this many times. They graciously pointed out Jesus to me every time. Jesus is the answer. Jesus is the Saviour. Jesus has already finished our salvation. We are only called to believe that He has.
      What finally brought me peace wasn't this earth shattering happiness that you think you should have. (As I thought I should have too) This is how it happened. A little man from Korea came and visited our church. He wasn't even a missionary. Just an ordinary Korean. He told how he searched for meaning to life for years. And found nothing. Finally he went to a church meeting, and there God convicted him that he was a sinner through a verse about lusting after women, and hating. He then told God, "What should I do to be saved?" The Lord told him, "Believe in Me." Everyone in the church started to laugh, but I am not sure they should of. There was nothing significant about his testimony, but it was real. That testimony was a real eye opener for me. As I thought on it, I realized that if I trusted Jesus to save me, and he didn't he would be a liar. I know he isn't a liar. I do trust Him to save me. No big moment of peace, no goosebumps. I didn't even realize what had happened until later. During all my doubts I had a heavy feeling of fear on my chest. I realized over the next few days that it was gone. When I thought about Jesus, I though how faithful He is, and I was  content in him. I suppose that is what it is. Just plain contentment.
       I don't know exactly when I was saved. The more I learn of and about salvation, the more I realized that it is all of him and nothing to do with me. I wasn't even trying to gain assurance, when the assurance came. I was meditating on Christ's truthfulness, and the fear was gone.
      Don't rely on "experiences" I have had them all!   I have had the goosebumps, the feelings of peace washing over me, they crying tears of repentance, the deep remorse over my sin, the calling on Jesus Christ over and over, of getting angry with God and even telling him that I hated him! And then crying tears of repentance over that. I have spent hours upon hours reading things on the internet to try and understand salvation. EVERYONE has a different idea of what brings assurance. Only the Word of God brings assurance, and only believing the the Word.
       I had "good" fruit, I have had "bad" fruit. Looking at our own fruit, can cause us to dwell on ourselves instead of Jesus. Look to Jesus. He saves. He has already paid your debt. He has already dealt with your sin. God is satisfied. Be satisfied yourself.
       

[sarajane]

Thank you for sharing that. 

[farmermanda]

I went to a campmeeting this week and being that it was my first night that I had been to this church in awhile, I had changed some of my ways of thinking to where I really sat back and thought harder on what I was hearing.  The preaching was great though.  But then came a woman up to sing. She is a deaf woman who signs to songs.  I think she is really nice. I had met her in previous years but she gave a testimony of how she led this other deaf man to the Lord.  I know she was in a way trying to be funny but she was saying about how when the man was praying, she was acting all impatient for him to hurry up.. just hurry up.    Course the crowd laughed.

Watching her do all this hand movements in a way was funny but on my way home I was really struck with the fact of  the seriousness of what that man was doing. If indeed he was becoming a child of God at that moment, why the rush?   That man can take all the time he wants and needs to feel he is right with God and begining his life as a christian now.   But of course some just press for that prayer and its like its about getting them to "sign up on the dotted line"  Its about pushing to get that done and then its like a self accomplishment. But its serious. Its someones salvation.

So many people want to push people to get them saved quickly as can be as if its a personal mission as opposed to someones eternal destination. Its serious serious business.  The only people I know who became a christian and got into the BIble and got serious about God were people who were friends with christians, watched their lives and realized they needed a Saviour through those Christians testimonys. They are the only ones still serving God in any way shape or form.  I myself spend 9 years thinkin I was saved because i said a prayer but I failed to truly acknowledge who Jesus is. It gave me a false sense of security and when God truly was trying to talk to my heart about salvation I always brushed it off because i had said a prayer like someone asked me to.  Anyone I had "lead to the Lord" via personal "soul winning" not a soul is in church or serving God at all.   But the nthere is a few families whom my dh and i befriended who saw something in us and they have testimonys of getting saved. No one handed them a tract or took them down to the altar but they all have clear testimonys of salvation and you can see a difference in them.

Sometimes I wonder if people get so focused on "soul winning" that they forget that they are testimony without even speaking as people around us are watching.  People neglect their families for the sake of soul winning and i know so many kids who grew up and wanted nothing to do with God because of their anger with their dad who never was around because he was always so busy "in the ministry"

I know im rambling a bit here.  Its just something on my heart tonight.  I know God can use people in different ways.   I guess I am partially tired of being scorned because I dont go out door to door.  I dont believe in its effectiveness.  I have seen so much more because of befriended and "loving" strangers than I ever did by showing up on someones doorstep at 9am on Saturday morning with my Bible in hand.

[bigpoppa]

well..... I was a hardcore drug addict for about 6 years. Then one night I "met" Jesus. I had a real encounter with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit came into the backseat of a car where I was and took me out of my body and into the spirit realm. When He brought me back I knew that Jesus Christ was the center of the universe. And that He was coming back soon!!!!!
For the next 8 years I followed God with all my heart (or so I thought). You see, I was under a teacher who taught that I was only getting to Heaven if I tried hard enough, if I "endured" to the end. I was very spiritual. I saw great healings, deliverances, miracles. Was a part of incredible healings. But I was sad, lonely and full of sin. And I was being taught that only I, in my own strength, if I wanted it bad enough, could I stop sinning. I was miserable. Never once did I believe that I was born again. I was working towards it. I went back into drugs, porn, drinking, etc. My marriage was a mess and I was a terrible father.

Then I listened to Mike Pearls teaching on Romans 6. And I finally "believed" what the Bible says about who I am. I believed that what Christ did was enough for me. I didn't pray a prayer or ask Jesus into my heart. But my life started to change radically. I stopped sinning. I started to love my wife and children. I started to rest in the finished work of Christ and walk in peace.

I don't believe that I was saved for those 8 years. I never believed that I was saved. I never believed that Christ died for ALL my sins, just my past sins. I believed that I was in control of whether I got saved or not. But when I truly believed on Jesus.....my life changed. There wasn't a certain moment that I know that I believed. But I am certain that I did because my life reflects it.

As Mike says: How do I know I was born the first time? There is evidence. How do I know I was born again? There is evidence. Even though I don't know the exact moment it started.

[hollyolly123]

I had a very similar problem about a month and a half ago.  At this point, I have no idea when I "got saved" but I know that I am now!!!  I just wanted to share what I noticed reading this post.  A lot of people out there think it is the prayer for salvation that saves you, like you can't be saved until you "ask Jesus into your heart."  I don't ever remember that phrase in scripture!  I'm certainly no bible scholar, and I think it's a great idea to pray after you believe, but doesn't the bible just tell you to believe?  Are their any other criteria listed?  Does the word of God tell you to pray a "prayer for salvation" and "ask Jesus into your life/heart" before you can be saved, or in order to be saved?  I think not!  I never understood salvation fully until I listened to "Sin No More" by Micheal Pearl, and I highly reccommend it.  And you have to listen to the whole thing, every last word, to get the message!  I have got to learn to study my bible the way he does!

[farmermanda]

Thats right hollyolly.

I am bothered by people pushing to "pray and ask Jesus into your heart"  I did that and for 9 years I doubt I was ever saved but I trusted in my prayer which btw, it was just repeating a prayer after someone else .. It wasn't something spoken through my heart.   I dont believe a one day event saved me. I truly believe it was over the course of time as I was learning the Word of God and He was working in my heart and I went from unbelief to belief in Him and trusting His Word.  It just cannot happen instantly.  I say it took me years whereas I realize others it can happen quicker but I think too many people are putting their trust and faith in their "asking Jesus into their hearts"

[bigpoppa]

Amen. I tell my wife that it took me 8 years to get to the cross.

[sarajane]

I'm glad I started this thread. I have found since admiting my doubt that there are many, many Christians who doubt their salvation. Most of them were like me, my doubt was in myself and then realizing Jesus saved me and I just needed to stop trying to understand. Had stop trusting in my own understanding and feelings. Unsaved people can have happy lives filled with these experiences that are very similar to the whole "getting saved experience" that I heard so much about for so many years.

Its funny. As I think back to the preachers who got me so confused, they never shared how they got saved....

I learned a lot from reading everyone else's posts and talking to God, and to my dad and my husband. The Lord took me doubts and really taught me a lot through them.

I too agree that it isn't repeating a prayer or any other work that saves you. It is sad how it is pushed so much as though it is something that the person does and not what Jesus DID. But, I do believe you have to "call upon the name of the Lord" which would mean some type of communicating with Him is involved.

I remember feeling (there's that word again) that I needed to feel something when I got saved. Like I would feel the holy spirit come down or something supernatural like that. And that that feeling should stay with me always. (silly I know)

I've looked around at other people, saved and not, thinking. It is so simple isn't it?! You can't tell by looking at a person whether or not they are saved, you may not even be able to tell for awhile from looking at how they live even. The thing that separates the saved from the unsaved truly is simple belief on the Lord Jesus Christ. Whether or not that person has called on His name for salvation.

I mean, most of America believes in some God, the God of the bible they would say even. They believe in the man Jesus but they are either saying they want nothing to do with it or calling on something other than Jesus to save them. Most seem to call on good works to save them, trust in themselves and their goodness they supposedly have.

Anyway, just more of my musings on the matter.

[bigpoppa]

I absolutely agree. I was to the point where I would look at all these "religious" people and say "works aren't going to get you into Heaven". I would judge them for thinking that if they went to church alot or gave to the poor or were 'good' people that they were somehow getting somewhere with God. I knew better. And yet I was trying to get into God's good graces by being "spiritual". I was pleasing God by being broken, humble, and willing for the Holy Spirit to take me to that next level. I was open to the spiritual, miraculous, moving of the Holy Spirit, etc and THAT made me acceptable in God's eyes. I was WAY more acceptable than the "frozen chosen". But I was still focusing on me. I was no better. But when I allowed Jesus to be Jesus in my life and I finally rested in His finished work my life changed for the good.

[sarajane]

I had thought of something else the other day. I truly do believe now that there really is such a thing as Christian Growth as so many put it. I know some of you don't think that salvation can happen in a moments time but...I tend to think it can. Many in the bible believed and were saved "that selfsame hour".

God said we are "born again". When you get born of the flesh, you are officially a living breathing "human being". You can't go back and not be human anymore. But, you aren't adult yet though, you can't feed yourself, clothe yourself, pee yourself, or do anything for yourself. Just because you do not yet do the things that most humans do doesn't mean you aren't one, your just still yet a baby, thats all. It doesn't take years and years and years to be born the first time....heh, it can take days though can't it!

I remember beating myself up because it took me so long, years for some things, to stop doing this or that or the other. I just didn't think about certain things as being sin when I did them. I was still learning, still growing. I was a "babe". I was being "fed with milk". When I got born again, I didn't instantly transform into an adult Christian. I was simply saved when I believed. I was yet a babe in Christ though. I was no less a saved person than someone who had been their entire life and was now 80. No sin I commited could change that.

While I was doubting I was thinking that, "I couldn't of been saved back then, look at what I did!" But I was, I just didn't always know better! When I did (know better), and I sinned, the guilt came just as it should. I was open to learning and wanting God's will in my life but I didn't have this miraculous transformation into a perfect Christian who threw out the TV and any fiction books and all my short skirts, etc, etc right away the next day. It takes years to learn and I am still learning.

I look at it this way now, there are baby Christians, child Christians, etc, etc. We spend our whole life growing after we are born of the flesh until we die. When we are born again, we spend all of what is left of our life "growing" as followers of Christ. Baby's don't know much and that is okay. Baby Christians don't always know much and that is okay too, they are still Christians.

You put your trust in Jesus Christ and believe on him and what he did, you are saved. This belief can happen in a moment. But growing into an elder Christian takes a lifetime.

[bigpoppa]

You put your trust in Jesus Christ and believe on him and what he did, you are saved.

That was my problem. I wasn't trusting in the finished work of Christ. I believed that Jesus got me to the starting line and then it was up to me to get the rest of the way through my obediance, sacrifice, brokenness, etc. As Mike Pearl says, I was going to God with an empty box and saying "See how humble and broken I am. I bring nothing to you. You have to let me in. I've done everything you asked." And God says "How dare you think that an empty box can somehow add to what Jesus already did for you." You either receive the free gift as a child or you spend your whole life trying to earn it/pay Him back. And if you do that it is not a free gift, it is works. And the Bible says that if you are going the works route you are responsible to be perfect.

[mxmom]

Just thought you all might like to know the impact of your honesty on this thread.  I began to read this thread thinking I'm glad to be saved.  As I read, something kept bugging me inside and I became very unsettled and doubtful.  Long story short, I came to realize that I believed in works.  I grew up attending a Lutheran church that my parent's families had attended for years.  I had always believed that if you were baptized as a baby, confirmed as a teen, and believed in God you were saved.  It was also very important that you were Lutheran and being full German was an added bonus!  However, when I became pregnant before marriage (I did marry my love before our daughter was born - yeah), I started to understand God must be bigger that I thought to grow my little miracle.  After she was born, I really began to search and ended up attending a Baptist church.  My poor dad thought I'd joined a cult!  They had me repeat "the prayer of salvation", give a public testimony, and get baptized by immersion.  Wow, I was 'in' for sure!  Well, since then I have tried really hard to be a good Christian wife, woman, and mother.  But, like my efforts to eat healthy, I would always sin in the morning and then write the day off and promise God I'd stop sinning tomorrow.  I realize now that my thinking was clearly, if I can't come perfect, I can't come at all. 
Anyways,  after reading this thread, I cried and cried and prayed and prayed.  I begged God to show me the  way.  I began to earnestly read the Gospels, came back to this thread and read it over and over again.  It finally became clear - I can do nothing, nothing at all.  Only by my believing that Jesus is sufficient and I can bring nothing can I really be saved.  Well, I asked God to take away all my former indoctrination concerning salvation and He did.  I finally came to understand with my head (I think my problem was all understanding and no faith!!) AND believe with my heart all that Jesus has done for me.  I know now I am saved!!  I feel so much peace and happiness right now AND so much love for Jesus and all of you who bared your souls and all of you whose words were the most excellent truth.  Now, when I wake up and think, say, or do something wrong, I tell God and talk to Him about it. I ask Him to give me the strength to change 42 years of habit in thinking and doing, BUT, I know that it doesn't mean I can't come to Him at all.  I am content.

Thank you Jesus and thank all of you! 

[bigpoppa]

Amen and Hallelujah!! Isn't it wonderful to be free? To be at peace? I never knew trusting and believing in Jesus could be so sweet. Gone is the striving and the struggling. And now all the focus and attention is on Jesus.

I'm so happy for you sister!!

[HoldingOntoHim]

I agree with mxmom.  Since I have been reading this forum, I have learned so many things and now I know without a doubt that I am saved.  I just cannot get enough of Jesus.  When I first thought that I was saved I "knew" who Jesus was and what He had done for me, but that was all it was "mind knowledge", He was not yet in my heart and soul.  This time though I know and feel Him in my soul.  My girl's are beginning to believe that their mother has finally lost all of her sanity as I cannot keep myself from walking around the house and giggling, (for no apparent reason according to them).

Beeyoutifulgirl I would like to thank you, for it was it was one of posts that you had written about faith that helped to finally know for sure.

HoldingOntoHim

P.S.  I am literally holding onto to Him with all my strength.

[bigpoppa]

P.S.  I am literally holding onto to Him with all my strength.

Just remember, when you lose your strength, He will still be strong. If your arms grow weary and you happen to let go He will still be holding on to you.

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