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[Journeyman]

I agree with Hamdiggy that the sabbath teaching is a Jewish tradition.  We Gentiles are not, nor ever bound to the Mosaic Laws.  I do try to avoid the traditions of man as often as possible.  As for the false religions that believe in sabbath keeping (7th day Adventists are Mormons), it really doesn't matter what day they have worship. It is a false religion. I would suggest you and your hubby read the Book of John 5:17. We find that Jesus clearly tells the Jews that God is now a God who is working on the Sabbath.  Try to see why God chose the bible to be written the way he wrote it.  Word for word...perfect.  We, as true believers,  need to understand these very important questions.  Someday all of us will be questioned on such topics. I hope this is helpful.

Hamdiggy thanks for being a man and getting on the forum.  We need men on here who are willing to look at this forum when most men are working.  Too often this forum becomes a woman's doctrine session.  Keep up the good work protecting sound doctrine.

[servantgirl]

Hello,
I don't know if this is appropriate for this forum, so if I am out of line just let me know,  I won't be offended.

My question is about the Sabbath. I have not listened to Mike Pearl's tape on the subject although I plan to. I currently attend a church that meets on Sunday, but I have a grandmother who is 7th day Adventist,  which worship on Saturday. Of course you know the extreme emphasis placed on Sabbath Keeping in that denomination. I am not by any means putting down that or any other denomination, I feel that as  one of the 10 commandments it is important to keep the Sabbath. But I want to keep it as I am supposed to, as it would please the Lord. I don't want to do it out of fear or legalism or any other reason than to honor God. So, if it is an appropriate question, what about the Sabbath? What day, or does it matter? And how am I to keep it?

I am attending the church that my husband wishes on the day he wishes and it is fine with me. But because I was raised with Grandma's example, it has always been an issue in the back of my mind. Can you help me settle this?
Thank you!

[HamDiggy]

Hello )

I just happened to hear a Messianic Rabbi (a Jewish believer, teacher, pastor) teach on this subject.  It was liberating.  He went into great detail about how the early church was rooted in Jewish culture, tradition and even the law given through Moses.  And, how Paul instructed Gentile congregations that they were not expected to adapt Hebrew traditions - only to follow Jesus as He leads -them-.

According to Rabbi Loren, Jewish believers are -free- to worship on Sat. and keep the Sabbath as the Lord instructed.  They (and Gentiles) are also -free- to choose another day of the week to gather for worship and corporate prayer and fellowship, like Sunday.  Gentiles were not instructed to keep the Sabbath, but it was a tradition to gather on Sun-day (pagan origin of the 'sun-god') as the Lord Jesus resurrected on that particular day of the week, and early gentile believers chose that day to gather for worship.

Hope that helps a bit - you can search on the net for more teachings from Christian historical views.

Hello,
I don't know if this is appropriate for this forum, so if I am out of line just let me know,  I won't be offended.

My question is about the Sabbath. I have not listened to Mike Pearl's tape on the subject although I plan to. I currently attend a church that meets on Sunday, but I have a grandmother who is 7th day Adventist,  which worship on Saturday. Of course you know the extreme emphasis placed on Sabbath Keeping in that denomination. I am not by any means putting down that or any other denomination, I feel that as  one of the 10 commandments it is important to keep the Sabbath. But I want to keep it as I am supposed to, as it would please the Lord. I don't want to do it out of fear or legalism or any other reason than to honor God. So, if it is an appropriate question, what about the Sabbath? What day, or does it matter? And how am I to keep it?

I am attending the church that my husband wishes on the day he wishes and it is fine with me. But because I was raised with Grandma's example, it has always been an issue in the back of my mind. Can you help me settle this?
Thank you!

[servantgirl]

Wow! It was so great to come back here and see so many wonderful responses to my question! You guys are very knowledgeable and extremely helpful. You have just put to rest an issue that has been nagging me since I was a teenager. I have felt that same way, and have read those and other passages before, but you know the people of the 7th day Adventists have an answer for all of those objections. I never really was able to ask anyone who could give me a clear response, and now I've had several. I know you are right, I feel the Spirit is confirming it, and this is the first time I have had peace about this.

I know the 7th Day'ers are not Mormons specifically, but their use of Ellen White as a prophet seems wrong to me. I think that's what Journeyman might have meant. ( Similar to John Smith with the Mormons.) They hold her writings as practically equal in authority with the Bible. By the way, I have read some of her writing,and everything I read seemed like nothing more than Bible commentary, not Earth shaking prophecy. I especially disagree with the use of the book of Revalation. ( I love Revalation, don't get me wrong! )They spend a hugely disproportionate amount of time in that book, and usually teach it to the newest members or visitors, which I think is not appropriate, because I understand it to be a "meatier" portion of scripture, not to be fed to unsaved. My opinion, of course, and they are really just trying to scare people.

I want to thank you again. What a great forum! I know this is my first post here, but I have read and learned quite a  bit already on other topics.
Thanks!

[titus2wam]

Hamdiggy thanks for being a man and getting on the forum.  We need men on here who are willing to look at this forum when most men are working.  Too often this forum becomes a woman's doctrine session.  Keep up the good work protecting sound doctrine.

I may be confused here but isn't Hamdiggy a woman? As a matter of fact Kevin's girl???

things that make you go hummmmmmm!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Jeri

[Titus2:3wife]

Hamdiggy thanks for being a man and getting on the forum.  We need men on here who are willing to look at this forum when most men are working.  Too often this forum becomes a woman's doctrine session.  Keep up the good work protecting sound doctrine.

I may be confused here but isn't Hamdiggy a woman? As a matter of fact Kevin's girl???

things that make you go hummmmmmm!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Jeri

I think that is why he said it?? 

[titus2wam]

Hamdiggy thanks for being a man and getting on the forum.  We need men on here who are willing to look at this forum when most men are working.  Too often this forum becomes a woman's doctrine session.  Keep up the good work protecting sound doctrine.

I may be confused here but isn't Hamdiggy a woman? As a matter of fact Kevin's girl???

things that make you go hummmmmmm!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Jeri

I think that is why he said it?? 

OH i get it!!!!  I told you i was confused !!!!
Jeri

[farmermanda]

hmmm im confused now

[Titus2:3wife]

hmmm im confused now

Me too, I guess.  What was the question?? 

[Journeyman]

(7th day Adventists are Mormons),

Thanks for pointing it out.  I meant to put a "like" in between are and Mormons.

[Searching]

As a "sabbath keeper" I've been following this thread with interest.  I have many questions about the theology on which I was raised which I won't get into, but everytime I wonder whether sabbath keeping is required any longer the one question that keeps coming back to me is with regards to the 10 commandments.  I have to assume that if we are no longer bound to honor the 4th commandment, then we are no longer bound to honor the other nine??  I am no scholar, so this is not a question to challenge anyone's opinon, rather a question of I really don't understand.  Can anyone enlighten me as to where the 10 commandments fit into the picture?.  If we aren't to keep sabbath holy, are we then also free to tell lies, fornicate, steal, kill, etc?  Again, I was spoon-fed all my life, so I'm just now starting to think for myself about these things, so forgive me if I'm ignorant.

[Searching]

Thanks for the responses.  What you say makes sense to me and what I had a hunch about to begin with.  Thanks again.

[servantgirl]

Andysdad,
If it's not too much trouble, could you tell me where to find the places in the NT where the other 9 commandments were mentioned? And where it says about Sabath keeping being optional? 
I am not doubting you but it would help me defend my position to others if I ever needed to.

This thread has been very helpful. Thanks, Searching, for asking the question about the commandments.

[1jammy]

yes, this thread has been helpful to me as well!  There have been times this issue has come up in my own mind and really bothered me and I could not come to a conclusion, though we worship on Sunday.  I feel a bit better now, and will continue to dig in the bible. 

[AndysDad]

Andysdad,
If it's not too much trouble, could you tell me where to find the places in the NT where the other 9 commandments were mentioned? And where it says about Sabath keeping being optional? 

Oooh--it is too much trouble. But I'll give it a try.
Here are some places that commandments are listed outright:
Mattthew 15:19            and     19:18-19 and the parallel in Mark 10:19 and the other parallel in  Luke 18:20
Romans 13:9
These lists only cover the last 6 commandments.
1 John last verse covers the first 2 more or less.
I guess right now I can't think of a better verse than Matt 5:33 for the 3rd commandment.

Sabbath is Optional: Gal. 4:10 (maybe), Rom 14:5 (for sure).
AndysDad

[AndysDad]

I should add that The Bible mentions Ten Commandments only thrice (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13, 10:4), and never stipulates what they were.  Thus even today there are the two lists-- one for Catholics, and another for the rest of us.

The lists in Deuteronomy 5 and Exodus 20 actually contain at least 15 commandments:
-No having other gods
-No making idolatrous images
-No bowing down to idolatrous images
-No taking God's name in vain
-No Sabbath breaking
-Honor both your parents
-No killing
-No adultery
-No stealing
-No falsely testifying false testimony
-No coveting your neighbor's wife
-No coveting your neighbor's real property
-No coveting your neighbor's human property
-No coveting your neighbor's animal property
-No coveting any other property of your neighbor's

[servantgirl]

Thanks Andysdad! 
That's just what I needed! Awesome!
BTW, I get such a kick out of your avatar- cracks me up to see Bill staring at me when I read your posts.
Thanks again!

[momofmany]

I agree with Hamdiggy that the sabbath teaching is a Jewish tradition.  We Gentiles are not, nor ever bound to the Mosaic Laws.  I do try to avoid the traditions of man as often as possible.  As for the false religions that believe in sabbath keeping (7th day Adventists are Mormons), it really doesn't matter what day they have worship. It is a false religion. I would suggest you and your hubby read the Book of John 5:17. We find that Jesus clearly tells the Jews that God is now a God who is working on the Sabbath.  Try to see why God chose the bible to be written the way he wrote it.  Word for word...perfect.  We, as true believers,  need to understand these very important questions.  Someday all of us will be questioned on such topics. I hope this is helpful.

Hamdiggy thanks for being a man and getting on the forum.  We need men on here who are willing to look at this forum when most men are working.  Too often this forum becomes a woman's doctrine session.  Keep up the good work protecting sound doctrine.

Huh? Seventh Day Adventists are Mormans?  I probably shouldn't admit this, but I am a SDA, and of course we emphasize the Sabbath...that's what our name means!  But getting back to the topic, Servantgirl, you have already stated that your DH is happy worshipping on Sunday, so what is the difficulty?  Have you prayerfully read what the Bible has to say on this subject?  If you need answers about what you have studied, then go to your DH, that is what he is there for.  Maybe you have already done this, if so please excuse my presumption....but there does seem to be a bit of that floating around... doesn't there?

[Journeyman]

Information on SDA:
http://www.macgregorministries.org/seventh_day_adventists/sda_facts.html

[trailmom]

My husband and I have a good friend that is a sabbath keeper.  He is not SDA and so meets and fellowships with no one.  This concerns us so we have spent a lot of time researching and discussing this.  Mike Pearl's sabbath teaching is excellent, I loaned it to this fellow but he insists that Mike Pearl is an anti-semite and will not listen  Our current understanding of the question concerning the keeping of the Ten Commandments is as follows:  The Law is a "school master" to lead us to Christ, the Word says we would not have known sin if not for the law.  We (dh and I) use the law quite a bit in witnessing to show people that God has a standard and we have not kept it.  When we are saved the "law" is written on our hearts, we do not lie, steal, fornicate etc.. because of the Holy Spirit living within us and the change we have in our hearts.  It is interesting to note however that the other nine commandments were restated in the NT.   
 *  The 1st commandment was reinstated in Matt. 22:37; 1 Cor. 8:5,6.
    * The 2nd commandment was reinstated in 1 Jn. 5:21. (Col. 3:5 and Eph. 5:5 broadens idolatry to include covetousness.)
    * The 3rd commandment was reinstated in Col. 3:8.
    * The 5th commandment was reinstated in Eph. 6:1-3.
    * The 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th commandments were reinstated in Rom. 13:8-10; Matt. 19:18; Gal. 5:14; 1 Cor. 6:9,10; and Gal. 5:19-21.
On letslearntheology.com they have an article about Sunday being a Holy Day which I think brings balance to the cavalier way in which many church goers treat Sunday.  We are convinced that keeping the Sabbath as a certain day is past however the overarching principle of having one day Holy unto the Lord still stands.  While we were doing research we did keep the Sabbath as a family and then attended church on Sunday.  We used the modified Sabbath dinner in "Celebrating the Feasts of the OT".  It was a great time for our family and sometimes we still do it because it was a wonderful family celebration and a great way to teach our children the things of God.  We also keep the passover using a Messianic Haggadah, but again just as a learning tool not as a "Law".  We enjoy these as Christian festivals celebrating Christ's fulfillment of these festivals.  Jesus is our Sabbath and that is exciting to me, I have rest in Christ, everyday, not just Saturday!

[Forever Girl]

he insists that Mike Pearl is an anti-semite and will not listen 

ROFLOL! Does he know that Mike Pearl is a Jew?

-Rebekah

[trailmom]

I doubt he wants to know that Mike Pearl is a Jew!!  The funny thing is, he insists that he is trying to understand the Will of God on this subject.  When we sat down with him and listened to the Sabbath CD he was very intent and got kind of agitated, writing down verses and everything. When it was over he was pretty flustered and said it "definitely casts a different light on this"  he wanted to borrow the CD to listen to it again, but on the way home 'God" revealed to him that Mike Pearl was an anti Semite so he won't listen to it again.  IMHO he is happy with a belief that isolates him from other believers.  If he agrees with no one he can excuse not belonging to a body of believers and all the messy human relations that go with that!  Funny thing is, prior to that he was very pro-Pearl (hehe) after I had given him a copy of "To Train Up A Child" and it had helped get his grandson under control, now he even has problems with that!!  Next time I see him I will probably 'casually' mention that Mr. Pearl is a Jew!

[Marisa]

Hi, I was just wondering about resting on Sunday. Is it sinful for me to do a little housework  (30 min) after church and resting? Like laundery or mopping the kitchen?

[Mrs. JDT]

Ooops!  I have been using my wife's username (tokh5301)b/c I thought it was mine.   The original post was placed by me not my wife.

My family meet with a church that observes the Sabbath.  I believe they mean well, and are doing this unto God.  However, I do not recall Paul ever commanding a Christian to observe the Lord's day.   I do not believe we observe a Sabbath anymore.  Your biblical knowledge and wisdom would be appreciated.

[Whiterock]

I have a question about this too, kinda, in a roundabout way. 

I see things in the New Testament that seem to indicate that, even under the Old Covenant (before Jesus' death), the way the Sabbath was being observed was not the way God intended.

For example, it seems to me that the idea of rest must have been taken to ungodly extremes because Jewish leaders told the healed man in John 5 that it was unlawful for him to carry his bed on the Sabbath. And yet Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath and the One who created the Sabbath law, told him to carry it.

It's not like Jesus didn't know it was the Sabbath or like He would tell someone to sin. So God's idea of rest on the Sabbath must have been different than theirs.

And I see things like Mathew 12:11 (and others) where Jesus didn't have a problem with folks lifting livestock out of a pit, or "do[ing] well" on the Sabbath (the How much then is a man better than a sheep? makes me think of mission work for the Christian -even on the Sabbath).

So it perplexes me when I hear or read the accounts of Christians who observe the Sabbath with same kind of extremes that the Jewish people of Jesus' day did. I have no problem with someone who wants to rest on the Sabbath but I guess my question is about "observing" or "keeping" the Sabbath as a religious sacrament type of thing. What does "keep the Sabbath" mean, biblically? Because it seems to me Jesus saw it differently than a lot of people did then or even how some [most?] people do now.

WR

[Beth]

doesn't MP have a teaching on this? I think he does.

[healthyinOhio]

doesn't MP have a teaching on this? I think he does.

Yes, he has one on the Sabbath, specifically, and he also teaches about it in his Galatians series. HTH!

[kcb]

My husband and I did a Bible study about the Sabbath, many years ago.  Not sure if I can post here what we found.

[milothebean]

However, I do not recall Paul ever commanding a Christian to observe the Lord's day.

This is just food for thought, perhaps a rhetorical question. Does Paul need to approve of a doctrine before it can be truth? Does Paul have the authority to change / alter an eternal ordinance, or a "set apart" time?

Again... just something to consider.

Gabe: Sevynn and I have prepared a response to your inquiry regarding the use of "ethnos" in the Apostolic Writings. It will be posted on Tuesday.

[SC lady]

Moderator's Note:
This topic exists for the purpose of questions related to the original post under the guidelines outlined here:
About the Bible Questions board

A Bible Discussion has been created in response to this thread here:
The Sabbath/Lord's Day Discussion

If you have comments/discussion on this topic, it should be posted on the Sabbath/Lord's Day Discussion thread.
Feel free to post follow-up questions on this thread.

Thanks for posting! 
~SC

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