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[Mamato6]

I have been going through this lately and was wondering if anyone else has struggled with this and what do you do about it.  I am a preachers wife so I really can not talk with others about this.

[littlemama24]

Well, first I'd like to say that I hope you will be uplifted and encouraged and not feel downtrodden any longer.  Please do not feel bad for expressing your concerns, we all have questions and problems at times and need to be encouraged. 
Now then, I'd like to ask you what is causing you to  feel God is against you.  Is it because of circumstances pressuring you on everyside?  Try to remember that many of God's people have been tested and tried and their "worlds crashed down around them" (Joseph, Job, Paul, Jesus himself, many many other examples).  God promises to never leave us or forsake us.  Perhaps you have allowed certain things into your life by choosing the world instead of the Lord...  like Lot, camping so close to Sodom, then closer an closer until finally he was in the midst of it all.  Even then God did not forget him.  Perhaps, you are enduring a time of hardship to bring you to a "higher place" in your walk with the Lord or perhaps your walk with him has been on shaky ground (like you're trusting in your own works or the faith or others and not in Him alone).  What makes you feel like God hates you?  All of life's answers are in the Word.  Look up "for you", "against you", and "hates"in your concordance.  Find all the verses and see where you fall.  I hope some of this can be of some help.  I have gone through times of shaken faith at times in my life and it seems I was often swayed by others' opinions of myself or because of my circumstances.  (Losing my son was a major one of those.)  Please continue to seek Him.

[Seeking]

 I am sorry you are going through this. I would suggest you purchase New Tribes Missions' Chronilogical Bible Study and go through it.
  This study is really helping me see who God is. God is the theme of the study, so you come to a better understanding of how God relates to man. I have been going for a month now to one that is being hosted by retired missionaries, and it has been so healing! God is made out to be the hero, it has really began to change my perspective on God.

[txseawater]

Mamato6 - ( I love pastor's wives. ) It's been almost a year. How are you doing? 

"For God SO LOVED the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "

[smalltown mom]

I can relate. I'm also a pastor's wife and feeling super discouraged lately.

I just can't figure some things out. Like what if God really doesn't want me or has not chosen me? The Bible says "He predestines those he wants to predestine, and hardens whom he wants to harden, etc." God chose to harden Pharoah's heart. And what about Judas? I guess Judas had some choice about whether to betray Jesus or not, but if he hadn't done it, someone else would have, as it was necessary to fulfill scripture. Did God create Judas just for this dismal purpose?

I guess what really makes me doubt whether I'm one of the chosen is that I just can't seem to get past myself. I keep praying for God to live his life through me, but it seems he's just turning a deaf ear. All the things I want to be, I'm not. Being a joyful, energetic mom for my kids is the biggest one, but I'm also completely selfish, prideful, and envious. How long do I have to pray the same prayer in order for God to make me Christlike? I think I'm being as obedient as I know how, but what if I'm missing something (or in denial of something) obvious that I will be held accountable for? Does the fact that I have all these doubts mean I'm probably not saved?

Are we all here just so that God can get some entertainment by watching a grand, cosmic game of good versus evil?

[lovetoreadmom]

Dear small town mom,

First of all, please know that I am praying for you.  You are not alone in this, even if you were the only person, God is w/ you as He promised in His Word.

Heb. 13:5 - [Let your] conversation [be] without covetousness; [and be] content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Deut. 4:31 - (For the LORD thy God [is] a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Deut 31:6 - Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he [it is] that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Deut. 31:8 - And the LORD, he [it is] that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.

Josh. 1:5 - There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: as I was with Moses, [so] I will be with thee: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Ps. 27: 10 - When my father and my mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up.

Ps. 94:14 - For the LORD will not cast off his people, neither will he forsake his inheritance.

Ps. 138:8 - The LORD will perfect [that which] concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, [endureth] for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.

These are just a few verses . . . may I suggest you look up "forsake" (for every use in Scripture), "I will be with you always" (and similar phrases), etc.  The Lord's promises are forever.

You asked that if you have doubts (which we all do at one point or another) if this means you're not saved.

Romans 8:16 says - "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God."

You said that all the things you want to be, you're not.  Paul said in Romans 7:15 - "For that which I do I allow not:  for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I." 

The Bible says in II Pet. 1:3 -  " . . . his divine power hath given us all things that pertain unto life and godliness . . . "

I believe that means we can find our answers to anything in Scripture.  It may take some digging, in fact, I believe it will.  However, we are to stay the course IMHO.  I think in this day and age, Satan knows his time is near, and he is doing everything he can too destroy, discourage, and downright bog us down w/ things that the Lord never intended for us to focus on in this world or life. 

If you are looking anywhere else for answers other than His Word, may I challenge to set ALL aside in that and look to Him.  I know in our busy lives it's hard to find time to spend alone w/ the Lord, but if we are seeking Him He will reveal Himself to us.  He is that good!!

[CountyCork]

I am so sorry you feel as if God hates you, or that He has not "chosen" you and therefore you are doomed for His hatred and condemnation.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it's the danger of believing the lies of the devil through the false doctrines of Calvinism or Reformed Theology.

God does not take pleasure in dooming anyone to hell.  God has not chosen some of us for His good favor and the rest of us are not of His concern.

As a woman, I'll not go into the Scriptures for or against this.  I'll only say that Calvinism and it's horrible doctrines are lies from the enemy designed to do exactly as they are doing to your spirit.  Within the bounds of your marriage and husband's leadership, ignore the falsehoods and read your WHOLE Bible in context and you'll see God's great and perfect LOVE for EACH of His beloved children - YOU are one of them!

Bless you. 

[Whiterock]

I am so sorry you feel as if God hates you, or that He has not "chosen" you and therefore you are doomed for His hatred and condemnation.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it's the danger of believing the lies of the devil through the false doctrines of Calvinism or Reformed Theology.

God does not take pleasure in dooming anyone to hell.  God has not chosen some of us for His good favor and the rest of us are not of His concern.

As a woman, I'll not go into the Scriptures for or against this.  I'll only say that Calvinism and it's horrible doctrines are lies from the enemy designed to do exactly as they are doing to your spirit.  Within the bounds of your marriage and husband's leadership, ignore the falsehoods and read your WHOLE Bible in context
Bless you. 

I absolutely agree. 

Also, I never try to reassure people that they are truly saved, that is so incredibly dangerous (I did that once and it still haunts me).

Some say that it's the devil that makes you doubt, but I don't think so. If you are not saved, and you think you are, then he's got you right where he wants you and would love nothing more than for you to die in that condition. And if you are saved then he can't convince you otherwise, so why bother?  No, our doubts are our own, IMO.

So I say that if you seriously think you might not be saved, then assume you are not. If you get "saved again" then what will it hurt, and if you get saved for the first time then angels rejoice!

More later....

WR

[CHAN]

I just can't figure some things out. Like what if God really doesn't want me or has not chosen me? The Bible says "He predestines those he wants to predestine, and hardens whom he wants to harden, etc." God chose to harden Pharoah's heart. And what about Judas? I guess Judas had some choice about whether to betray Jesus or not, but if he hadn't done it, someone else would have, as it was necessary to fulfill scripture. Did God create Judas just for this dismal purpose?

The Bible does not have that quote in it.  Searching through multiple translations, the closest I can find is Romans 9:18, which says (in the KJV) "Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth."

The examples of people whose hearts God hardened are all ones who had themselves first turned from God and toward their own lusts.  I know of no examples of God predestining people from the beginning of the world or the beginning of their lives to have their hearts hardened.  The only case that I think could be argued to be an exception is that God told Abraham that his descendants would be captive in Egypt for 400 years, and that the nation would then be punished for its mistreatment of the Hebrews.  But while this was a prophesy about the nation, I believe it did still allow Pharaoh the choice of obeying God.  Our God has abundant mercy, but sometimes chooses to harden the hearts of some who reject him in order that others may turn to Him in the end.

I guess what really makes me doubt whether I'm one of the chosen is that I just can't seem to get past myself. I keep praying for God to live his life through me, but it seems he's just turning a deaf ear. All the things I want to be, I'm not. Being a joyful, energetic mom for my kids is the biggest one, but I'm also completely selfish, prideful, and envious. How long do I have to pray the same prayer in order for God to make me Christlike? I think I'm being as obedient as I know how, but what if I'm missing something (or in denial of something) obvious that I will be held accountable for? Does the fact that I have all these doubts mean I'm probably not saved?

I think you should assume that.  You are describing yourself as someone who is not saved.  Many grow up in the church, and learn what the church teaches, and still miss the greatest truth of all.  Praying a prayer does not make you saved or Christlike.  Being obedient some of the time (and you know you're not obedient all of the time -- none of us are) will not get you saved.  I highly recommend listening to the following message on this:

Am I Saved? by Michael Pearl

Your comments sound very much like those of my wife in the past.  She got saved after hearing this.

Are we all here just so that God can get some entertainment by watching a grand, cosmic game of good versus evil?

I believe we are here for God's pleasure, but God gets no pleasure from evil.  I believe God allows evil in the world so that you have a choice.  How could you choose what is good if there were nothing that was not good?  You would just be a robot.

[SC lady]

http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,15728.msg151724.html#msg151724
http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,15869.msg155054.html#msg155054
http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,15833.msg157125.html#msg157125
 

[floydian]

Yes sweetheart, God adores you.  Not just loves from afar, but adores YOU.  He knows everything about you and still loves you.  It doesn't matter what you've done, what you've thought, He adores YOU personally YOU!!!!

You've heard the passage about the treasure hidden in a field and the pearl of great price.  Well, in the early part of this century, most pastors taught that individuals were the treasure and the pearl.  Jesus was the one who sold everything in order to buy them back.  That's how very much He thinks about you.

Immagine the world's most perfect love.  Guess what!!  He loves you wayyyyyy more than that.  More than you dare to believe.  You are so very precious to Him.  If we could only grasp how MUCH He loves us, and how perfect His love is for us, Wow!!!  We'd set the world on fire.

Read Song of Solomon again.  It's a picture of Jesus's love for us. 

As far as being saved.  Well, I don't know if you are saved or not.  But I kow that He died so that you could be so, and that He rose again so that you could be free.

[txseawater]

Please talk to us some more smalltown...

[smalltown mom]

Thank you. It really blessed me that so many of you took the time to respond to my concerns. I feel kind of silly, now, because I know the answer is really pretty simple. The times that I'm consistent with staying in the word are the times when these doubts/questions do not really trouble me. I think that keeping the communication lines open with God (by reading the word daily) is something I've really let slide lately.

It's funny the things we forget, too. Like in a recent NGJ issue, Mike Pearl was talking about how his grandmother (I think) would leave the Bible open all the time in a convenient place where she could read it between chores. I thought that was such a great idea and did it for a few days, only to completely forget about it until just recently.

I actually listened to the "Am I Saved?" message a few months ago, and it really made sense but kind of stirred up a lot of doubt for me, as well. What really got me scared was how he said that  "asking Jesus in your heart," or "making Jesus the Lord of your life, etc." won't save you. That was kind of hard to take, since I've heard this preaching my whole life! Just wondering if this threw anyone else for a loop.

I've definitely seen God's love for me through your posts. Bless you!

[hollyolly123]

Yes, it threw me for a loop too.  I've gone through this myself.  I'd say it's a matter of heart change.  I "asked Jesus into my heart" like three times, hoping it would work, trying to believe it enough to get me what I wanted.  I was in the eighth grade - ish.  Then after professing to be an atheist among other things, I finally "got saved" when I was eighteen.  It was like, wow, it's true!  Jesus is the son of God and he did this for me.  ME!  What love!  And I changed.  There was no going back and forth about weather it was true or not.  I desired God's word.  I love to proclaim his name.  Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!

Now, since then I have had times of doubting my salvation, being grouchy, wondering where God is in a particular trial, etc.  Like you already said, the Word is so important in keeping us on track. And trusting our Daddy.  He loves us so!  We are his children.  And didn't he say foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child?  We are foolish sometimes.  Because we are his children.  You are not the only one.  Have faith like a child as well.  It's true, it's done, it's paid for.  Rest in him.  Praise him.  God inhabits the praises of his people.  And he's intimately interested in you.  Otherwise you wouldn't care so much if you were saved or not.  He's a lot more loving than even the most loving of us.  So when you feel super loved, or witness something super loving, imagine how much more God loves and how good and warm his love is.  God is many things (judge, just, holy, avenger, redeemer), but God is also LOVE.

That said, Floydian,  every time you respond to me or someone else who is having a hard time, it seems like a great big hug with words.  You are such a blessing.

[lotsaboys]

What really got me scared was how he said that  "asking Jesus in your heart," or "making Jesus the Lord of your life, etc." won't save you. That was kind of hard to take, since I've heard this preaching my whole life! Just wondering if this threw anyone else for a loop.

I've been "thrown for a loop" over a lot of teachings I've been taught all my life. It wasn't until I laid down all my preconceived beliefs and just took God's Word for what He says that I understood the Gospel!

"Asking Jesus into your heart" isn't found in Scripture, but what is found over and over is "BELIEVE".

The times that I'm consistent with staying in the word are the times when these doubts/questions do not really trouble me. I think that keeping the communication lines open with God (by reading the word daily) is something I've really let slide lately.

If you are depending on your performance and "keeping the communication lines open" to keep the doubts away, you will inevitably be disappointed. Remember Abraham believed and God COUNTED it to him for righteousness. Our belief in the finished work of Christ is the only thing we can "do" that will cut it with God. He is not impressed with my Bible reading time if that is what I am relying on to make me feel saved.

I say this as someone who for years didn't feel good enough or acceptable to God even after hours and hours of Bible reading and prayer. It wasn't until I trusted in Jesus's righteousness ALONE that I was set free from that bondage! His incredible gift is so real and takes away all doubts! Its just too simple for us "churched" folks to understand sometimes.

May God bless you lots and lots, smalltown mom!!

[txseawater]

 

I am SOOO happy to introduce some of you to Dr. Fount Shultz. I grew up listening to this man's teaching gift among many others and we shared the Lord in home fellowship with him and his family. It has been many years, and I had not been in touch with them because they moved from Texas to New York! Might as well have been China. Anyway, this last week has been like a wonderful reunion with all of the best food! Spiritual food! Brother Fount has on his site an area called Reflections. Read those daily devotionals! I sped read and gobbled up 3 years worth of them in a couple days, but I think I'll be reading them again and again. He has written a book on The Father's Love. The reflections are all about the prodigal, the other sons, and the father. THE FATHER LOVES US!!!! I talked to Brother Fount and he said that he would love to have more interaction on his site in posts. He is the moderator!  Next time I talk to him, I will introduce him to 7X.  This material is SO RICH!!! I KNOW it will bless you all particularly in this subject.

http://onword.org/blog/index.php           

[provided4]

I do not feel that God hates me. But I have felt lately that he has lifted his covering, left us floundering in a slow, simmering downward spiral and I do not feel him, hear him. I tend to prey on dh when this happens. Like we're feeding on each other, blaming each other...It occured to me that I do not know God or I wouldn't be this miserable. So the last few weeks in bible study I have concentrated really hard ( studying Exodus) to get to know who God is. It is helping so much. I have to use commentaries and lots of outside reading to wrap my brain around it...but it is helping.
This forum helps tremendously as well.

[joyofthelord]

Provided4 - I will be praying for you and dh.  Sometimes we don't always understand God, but just that you are seeking Him, surely your answers will come.  I too am so thankful for this forum.

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