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[Travis]

I was raised Evangelical Mennonite - a modernist denomination of the pacifistic sect - which I now believe to have presented me with a pretty clear view of why Jesus Christ was born, lived, died, rose again and ascended to heaven.  I believed that at a young age. 

As I grew older, my lack of self-discipline brought me under many secular influences and although I didn't get into any chemical addictions, I did find myself with other addictions of the flesh.  This came to a climax when I married my friend, and because of her (we'll say liberal) Baptist upbringing, I had to answer questions about why the Mennonites do things this way or that way.  Today, I am grateful for her questions.  Even then, she wasn't intending to be insulting or undermining, just simply curious. 

As a result, I moved our family out of a conservative Mennonite church into an Independent Baptist Church.  The move was by no mean lateral.  Even now, I don't consider the former group on an equal plane, spiritually speaking, to the latter.  We spent roughly 6 years there.  Admittedly, we were growing spiritually there.  My wife and I were trying to get along, while I was trying to sort out how to be a good husband and father.  The first 3 years, we grew on the milk and white bread fed from the pulpit.  We needed this time in our lives, and I'm grateful to God for putting us there.  The following 3 years, we spent reading our Bibles while the pulpit was being thumped, virtually oblivious to the onslaught coming through the speakers.  (Whatever free time we had between work and church were spent sleeping and eating!)  We were hungry for more than the "principles of the doctrine of Christ".  It was a course I took at the church's seminary that helped me realize there was more to Scripture than what was coming across the pulpit. 

By this time, I'd become aware of other Bible teachers, like Mike Pearl, and saw that the conclusions I'd drawn from studying Scripture were strikingly similar to theirs.  It wasn't really that the Baptist church, or the previous Mennonite churches preached differently (I see it now, but didn't then) but that they just didn't talk about a lot of truth that freed me from my addictions.  It was this newfound freedom that emboldened me to question their doctrines further which inevitably got me, and friends, in hot water.  The adversity sent me even deeper into Scripture, strengthening my confidence in the faithfulness of the Holy Spirit as a teacher and guide.

I now believe that this journey through different Christian denominations brought about tremendous growth and maturity in myself and my wife.

If you've endured my story to this point, perhaps you can answer me this:
Do you avoid other denominational teachings / teachers "like the plague", or do you embrace the idea of learning of another position that differs from your current position?  Why?

[BJ_BOBBI_JO]

I dont mind learning other positions.  I was raised strict legalist Baptist with the dress codes and all that junk. I am greatful for the in depth Bible teaching I got there  but the other stuff was not for me.

I set out to learn. My soul was hungry for something differant but still Godly. I was made to think that only the Baptist were the true believers and all other demoninations were misslead by satan. I knew in my soul that just could not be right.

I was open minded enough to think for myself.( that is  something legalist dont like about others)  but not so open minded my brains spilled out but enough to not be brain washed 100% by well meaning people.

I listened ( and still do) to the BOTT RADIO NETWORK on the radio all the time. Listening, learning and ingesting it spiritualy. I read  and I talked with other Christians. I did not agree with every program but still It was and is something I need. They have lots of information programs on it like stuff for your spiritual life, for our health, for our marriages kids and so on. There are many speakers teachers and preachers on there from a variety of demoninations.
Such as focus on the family, Hank Hanegraaff ( he is great at knowing the Bible), Mr. Kerby Anderson  ( has lots of stuff on health ). and many more. The link  for the BOTT network  and on it you can  find out where the BOTT network can be herd in America:  http://www.bottradionetwork.com/splashFlash.asp

This I feel helped me eat of the spiritual meat and not just the milk and rules.

There are times in my life when I have smuggly thought I had the spiritual answers and that I had no need to listen to any others outside of my church. But still I was not satisfied not even when I heard the meat which was all the time. I felt empty and something was missing. Im glad I did not stick to thinking smuggly or I would be wallering in a spiritual  sess pool of spiritual hunger and depression. What I thought I knew was nothing.  What I know now will be like nothing compared to what I will know and realize 10 years from now.  Im so thankful that we now go to a church that is just right for us and so truthful.

Something I have learned in life is this : there is no demonination of Christianity that is 100% the best and 100% correct.

Something else I know is that JESUS is 100% for real.

[~esposita~]

Do you avoid other denominational teachings / teachers "like the plague", or do you embrace the idea of learning of another position that differs from your current position?  Why?

Growing up I had no idea there were different denominations; I know better now.  It seems that denominations "happen" when God gives a new revelation of Himself, or about His kingdom, etc.  The person/group then grasps ahold of that "revelation" and unfortunately seem to disregard all previous revelations from the Lord.  (As example - Martin Luther and his "revelation" of the grace of God.  Today, there are groups of Christians that lean so heavily on God's grace that they forget His righteous Justice and His hatred of sin.)

Anyway, I say all that to say that we don't avoid other denominationsl teachings/teachers.  However, nor do we embrace the idea of learning "other positions", either.  We are trying to dig out Truth each and every day.  (Now, we don't fellowship regualrly with people that are "way off" from what we believe - usually, the "way off" people are the ones that can't get off their soap box and think you're going to hell in a hand basket if you don't see it just like they do).

It seems like no denomination is correct, but that each one contains a portion of the truth.  It also seems that "opposing" denominations can exist together in God's eyes, and in the "Hebrew" way of thinking.  For example:  Are You Once Saved Always Saved or Can You Loose Your Salvation.  Big argument.  We think the answer is...yes.  Fortunately, it is not my job to judge the "salvation status" of another believer; however, "by their fruits you shall know them."  Anyway, that is another discussion.

In all we hear, in all we contact, we try to discern whether it lines up with Scripture or not.  There are people I know and trust and will go to for Godly advice on many things, but yet have differing beliefs on issues such as healing/speaking in tongues/etc.  These people love the Lord with all that they are and have devoted their lives to Him in ways that I want to learn from.  I don't believe that they will be "kicked out of heaven" for missing the boat on some "minors."  They bear much fruit for the King and His Kingdom.

My husband says that we would all be better off if we would "major in the majors and minor in the minors."  What are the majors?  Surely not dress code, not headcoverings, not speaking in tongues, not Pre/Mid/Post Trib, etc.  That said, as we delve into the word of God more and more, we are finding things that are so...wrong! in His body.  It will do no good for us to run and hide from these that are deceived, but we are trying to live our lives as examples. 

I want to better learn to Love the Lord my God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength and to love my neighbor as myself.  Thats what I'm working on.  The only One that can truely help me do that is the Lord Himself!  Yet, its funny how many different (and strange!) members of His body He will use to accomplish that!

Another thing Andrew (DH) says is that it is necessary wherever you are to "eat the meat and spit out the bones.  Like when you eat chicken wings!" 

Ah well!  Enough rambling! 

Good question, Travis!  You've made me think - thanks!

[screasy]

WOW, bajusabroad, I felt like I was reading something I had written when I read that last post!

I was raised Church of God (speaking in tongues etc) and still attend there.  In recent years I really got into the Bible and began to study some issues....specifically ones you have mentioned, head coverings, dress, tongues etc.  I found things in scripture that did not agree with some of what I was taught.  Certainly the 1 Corinthian model of tongue usage is not followed in some Pentecostal churches.  Then I have attended independent Baptist churches which had great teaching on dress and holy living, but thought tongues were from the devil, and unless you were a Baptist (capital "B") you were wrong at least, or going to hell at worst.

I had started to wonder if there WAS a church which believed in holy living, proper dress, gifts of the Spirit (operated Biblically), and where they didn't faint if you clapped your hands or sang an occasional "worship" song to the Lord.  Well, I guess I STILL wonder if there is such a place, because I haven't found it!  So MANY places seem to have their own little slice of scripture "pegged" and absolutely REFUSE to consider what other folks are saying about it.  It is MADDENING!

I have tried to not be just discontent with everything, and let the Lord lead me where He would have me.  DW says that if we DID leave our church (which we have attended for 20 years, and in which I am a deacon) where would we go?  All the other churches we have seen or heard about all have some piece of the puzzle missing.

Maybe we will have to wait until heaven to see it all come together!  Oh well...talk about rambling!   

[screasy]

Where does it say that in the Bible BTW?

I have always understood Hebrews 10 to be addressing that issue:

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) 24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Perhaps I am wrong?

[screasy]

Kristen,

I understand your feelings about this issue, I think.  If you have been taught what you have found to be incorrect by a "church" you may be a little gun-shy of a "church".

I do firmly believe, however, that this passage is directing us believers to assemble together in order to exhort one another and lift each other up.  Indeed, it says "let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works".  I think that is kind of hard to do if you don't fellowship with others.

Now I don't have any knowledge of your situation, and I know there are others here with similar situations.  I admire you for following your husband, I think that is wise.  Sometimes these situations are unavoidable, but I don't think they are meant for the long-term.

You spoke of churches with problems.  Most ALL the Pauline epistles, especially Corinthians, deal EXTENSIVELY with "churches with problems".   I have to remind MYSELF that regularly!  There are not perfect churches, and the more I see, there are few who are even close.  Again, I am not judging you,  because I don't know your situation.  You said that you don't need to attend various church meeting to be a child of God.  I agree, but in order to have "iron sharpen iron" it must first meet!     I think we should all remember that we need others to "keep us honest" from time to time (boy, am I speaking to myself here).

May God richly bless you and your husband in your journey!  It is so good to at least have a community like this so we can interact with folks from backgrounds we would never otherwise meet.  How cool is that!

God Bless!

[Travis]

You spoke of churches with problems.  Most ALL the Pauline epistles, especially Corinthians, deal EXTENSIVELY with "churches with problems".   ...  you don't need to attend various church meeting to be a child of God.  I agree, but in order to have "iron sharpen iron" it must first meet!

This is likely a point at which we differ, but I don't believe the churches mentioned in the Pauline epistles were organized in a similar fashion to the ones dotting the American landscape today.  For those of us who avoid the buildings and groups, I've found it's not to avoid fellowship, but to get out of that style of organization.  But I digress...

I like your point about iron sharpening iron.  It illustrates my point exactly.  It is a good thing that believers differ in opinion.  The greater the difference, the more sharpening that can take place.  1Co 11:19  For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.    Paul agreed that the heresies within the Corinthian church would make the true believers more obvious among them.

When I look for a group of believers to fellowship with, I'm not looking for their beliefs to be fully lined up with what I believe to be true.  I have changed my convictions on a number of things several times in the last 15 years... change is good - and necessary - for growth.  Besides, there's no sharpening when everyone agrees.  You simply end up with a shallow group of people that can't survive adversity.

Travis

[screasy]

...but I don't believe the churches mentioned in the Pauline epistles were organized in a similar fashion to the ones dotting the American landscape today.  For those of us who avoid the buildings and groups, I've found it's not to avoid fellowship, but to get out of that style of organization.  But I digress...

No, I believe we agree.  I would definitely say that what we have now is different in many respects to what the early church was, but it is what we have.  My point is that is what THEY had at the time, and they still had problems.  BIG problems.  We need not think that we can avoid problems, they are inevitable.  While I am not saying that everyone in the situation is doing it, I think some avoid the "problems" by withdrawing altogether.

Man, I love this place!  How wonderful to be able to express an opinion and have a loving discussion of it!  Thank you all for making this a great place to visit!

And Travis, please feel free to start another thread about church organization if you want.  I love hearing what folks think about things and why!

[screasy]

To restate the original question and answer:
"Where did I find truth?"
IN THE BIBLE!

And that is where you have it right!  When we say...."I believe...." instead of "The Bible says...." we get into trouble!  Kudos to you, Kristen, for being obedient!

[Travis]

And Travis, please feel free to start another thread about church organization if you want.  I love hearing what folks think about things and why!

I would, but it's already been done: http://www.7xsunday.net/forum/index.php/topic,4195.0.html

However, after reviewing that thread, I feel that a more specific thread is in order.   It is here.

Any more takers on the topic at hand?

[JoyInHim]

I don't think you are wrong.  The first believers met on the Lord's day as a tradition, celebrating His resurrection...It seems to be a healthy tradition, to set aside the first day of the week and rest and fellowship and worship together.

Also, my husband says he desires to be under spiritual authority, himself.  He cannot do that if we do not fellowship within a local body of believers.  He is careful to choose godly authorities who have accountability with other godly men. 

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) 24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Perhaps I am wrong?

[JoyInHim]

It's a good testimony you have Travis.

A good question, too.

I used to believe 'I' was rather clever to have decided Jesus Christ was good enough to be my Savior, when I got saved at 18.   

The older I get, though, the more awed I am that God Himself called me, I am His - wow.  I must say now, I believe Truth found ME, and not the other way around.  The longer I live, the more I realize, there was not anything in ME that was clever or bright enough to even fathom the Living God.

"When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;  What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?"
(Ps. 8

Once the Lord Jesus became my Lord and Savior....I haven't been able to know Him or get 'en0ugh' of Him.

I've never been afraid of learning and understanding how different people groups (and even cultures) worship and serve Jesus Christ.

I think just a hunger to know God more, has led me to desiring to observe and fellowship and understand other groups and their walks with God.  True believers of the real gospel of Jesus Christ our Lord, that is.

I now believe that this journey through different Christian denominations brought about tremendous growth and maturity in myself and my wife.

If you've endured my story to this point, perhaps you can answer me this:
Do you avoid other denominational teachings / teachers "like the plague", or do you embrace the idea of learning of another position that differs from your current position?  Why?

[ridgerunner]

Do you avoid other denominational teachings / teachers "like the plague", or do you embrace the idea of learning of another position that differs from your current position?  Why?

Bumping this interesting question... 

To answer the question in your subject, I feel that I have both found the truth, and am still looking.  I was raised in the United Pentecostal Church, and I appreciate the fact that being raised in such a strict religion gave me a strong spiritual foundation.  That's not to say that I agree with their doctrine, I certainly don't.  The rules, to me, seem like such non-issues and such a distraction from Jesus's message.  Some things happened that scarred my soul, and I left Christianity completely. 

After that I attempted to embrace atheism, but I knew better.  Jesus had allowed me to have a miraculous healing as a child, and there I was trying to deny God.  So, I embarked on a quest for the truth.  I already knew the Bible pretty well, I had went to a Christian school the few years that I wasn't homeschooled and we memorized a Bible chapter per week there.  I had also been on a Bible quiz team within the organization as a teenager that did really well... so I read the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Works of Josephus, the lost Gospels, etc.  Then I decided I wanted to know the other options.  I read the Torah, the Zohar, read about Kaballah, and read the Koran.  2 Timothy 3:7 is a pretty good example of this stage of my life.  "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Eventually I settled on this.  I'm not a Christian.  There are teachings within the doctrine of every Christian denomination I know of that I don't agree with.  What I am, is a Follower of Jesus.  A Seeker of God.  If Jesus said it, I try to do it, the way that I believe he meant it.  I decided that my soul was between me and Jesus only.  I'm still OK with that... BUT now I'm a Mom.  I keep thinking about the fact that, if I hadn't had the spiritual foundation provided to me by being raised in a church.... well I don't know what I'd do if I hadn't had it.  I can't comprehend people that never think about spiritual matters at all.  It's such a big part of my life, and even though some bad things happened, I have my Christian upbringing to thank for that.  I want that for my daughter, so I've begun a search for a church that I can be comfortable in, and that I trust to speak truth to my family.     So, for myself I feel settled.  For my family, I'm still searching. 

And to answer your question in your post, I do always enjoy learning the beliefs of every denomination.  I'm always ready to learn, and I've learned alot from people from denominations that I wouldn't want to join, but sometimes they express a point of view on certain passages of the Bible that never occurred to me.  And also, I can't deny that I keep hoping that someday I'll run across one that I can agree with enough to join.  I believe that we can't expect to always agree with every single thing in an organization we belong to, but some things are fundamental to denominational beliefs and if you don't believe them, then there's just no way you could truly belong to that denomination. KWIM?  It would be so nice though to sit back and be taught and trust what I was hearing.  I could allow my daughter to learn from people wiser than me and not feel so panicked all the time that I'm misinterpreting something.  Hopefully I'll be able to some day. 

[andiki]

Like Joshua said and I think that's what esposita meant to say: "As for me and my house we will serve the Lord".  I was raised in a Baptist church. Not the one legalistic all conservative but unfortunately lately, falling a little into the liberal side.  That's so sad to me.  My husbad grew up in a Biblical church, but now that we're married though we're still attending my church (for some personal reassons) I think that today there wouln't be a "perfect" church.  We are focused (me and my family) on God and what the Bible says about  the different topics around.  I will not judge the belifes of other people but try to keep myself on the truth: JESUS. He is the life, the way, the truth. If He is the focus of our lifes, allthe pieces will fall in its properly place. Just my opinion.

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